The championship chit chat thread

[Life with the Lions]

Have you walked around Peckham, Bermondsey or Deptford recently? It's all change and it ain't for the likes of us or our offspring. The road i live on has many three bedrooms with garden going for £900k to a million, same in Deptford/

New cross ove half a million for a family home. Bermondsey and all around the Den new builds are fling up. £400k for a one bedroom. Selling point is five minutes from the city on the rattler- ten minutes to canary wharf on the overground.

Brixton, not that long ago was a communal crack den, not no more. Houses going for a million plus. Rental per month for a one bed £1,500-£2k a month. Hackney once known as murder mile has gone the same way.

I agree with all that you’ve said, but I didn’t word it right. What I meant was that even if these Rupert‘s and Tarquin’s live in Peckham, Bermondsey or Deptford, I think they would be more at home travelling to places like Stamford Bridge (Sloane Square area) than at The Den with scallywags and ruffians like our lot!

 

[kinelloz]

From the lack of news coming out about any of our squad being disruptive influences, my conclusion is that they are all good, honest pros who train and play to the best of their respective abilities. The problem is that that most of them do not possess the necessary ability to play in the PL.

With the best will in the world, replacing three players and spending £5m would not make much difference. Imo we have - at best and being very generous - 8 of our own players who could be, or have the potential to be, in a PL squad (Danny, Hutch, Cooper, Billy, Sav, Fleming, Burey and Esse). Imo the choice would be between the 'Forest model' and run with what we've got. The latter strategy would imo almost certainly result in relegation but should make us a profit and give us a significant cash windfall. The former would give us a better chance of survival - and further riches - but would be costly and risky.

Wrt my original point. If we were to go up, I don't think that it matters if it is this season or next, the choice will remain the same: Spend large or not, hence my view that we might as well have it this season if we can.

Know a few Forest from England aways. We think West Ham fans ain't happy, the old school Forest despise what their club has become. None of the mob I know are renewing ST's as in their words, we'd thought we be a proper club up there, but we are now as plastic as the rest. These fellas are all late 50's, early 60's.

Careful what you wish for

 

[Life with the Lions]

Know a few Forest from England aways. We think West Ham fans ain't happy, the old school Forest despise what their club has become. None of the mob I know are renewing ST's as in their words, we'd thought we be a proper club up there, but we are now as plastic as the rest. These fellas are all late 50's, early 60's.

Careful what you wish for

Why should a change in the club’s fortunes mean that supporters mindset has to change as well?

I think Wall supporters, regardless of their age, are a product of the community they come from: tough, hard as nails working class people who are all about family and the love of a football team that represents them!

We are not entitled supporters like those at Charlton, Cardiff, etc. thinking we’re better than everyone else, and that being in the Championship/league 1 is just a ‘blip’ and everything will be fine when we return to the Prem again! We’ve never had that mindset! We‘ve had so many promotions and relegations over the decades that nowadays consolidation in the Championship these past 6 years is deemed a success by us, because we’ve been where the spotters are now (league 1), and where a team like Bradford (who, over 20 years ago, were playing their football in the Premier League), are now - sitting just above mid table in league 2!

Our hard core support will never change! No matter what league our club is playing in, there will always be supporters following us through the good and the bad times, and I honestly believe that getting promotion to the Prem won’t change that hard core support! We would still enjoy sticking it to every other club we play against, still be singing ‘No One Likes Us’ at the top of our voices, precisely because we hate the Premier League and what it’s done to football, and even though we’d be playing there we would fight to retain our identity because we‘ve seen what’s happened to the likes of Chelsea and the Vermin, when they succumbed to it!

There’s a reason why Vermin and other clubs supporters admire us, because we haven’t changed who we are and we say it as we see it (refusing to take the knee being just one example), and if that pisses off the PL bosses, then we know we’re doing everything right!

 

[Ilderton Wanderer]

Anyone who thinks that a couple of years in the premier league wouldn’t change our fanbase completely is living in a fantasy world. Go back a few years and tell the blokes standing in the chicken run, the clock end or the shed what their clubs would become and they would have laughed at you too.

We are already a bit of a magnet for tourists and upper/middle class bods who want to feel a bit dirty for the day. The only thing is at the moment there’s enough of us clinging on but that pool is getting smaller by the year. There are plenty of bods out there that won’t go games now because of the cost let alone pay more. A hike on ticket prices, both on the day and ST, is all it would take.

Forget all this ‘let’s go up and cause chaos for a season’ nonsense too, it’s not the 80s anymore. Premier league grounds are mostly populated by the sort of middle aged well off families that used to go to the theatre but now see football as their part time hobby. There’s only a couple of games that would have a bit of potential and they would be policed to extinction anyway. If it happens it happens but I wouldn’t be looking forward to it too much.

 

[Life with the Lions]

Anyone who thinks that a couple of years in the premier league wouldn’t change our fanbase completely is living in a fantasy world. Go back a few years and tell the blokes standing in the chicken run, the clock end or the shed what their clubs would become and they would have laughed at you too.

We are already a bit of a magnet for tourists and upper/middle class bods who want to feel a bit dirty for the day. The only thing is at the moment there’s enough of us clinging on but that pool is getting smaller by the year. There are plenty of bods out there that won’t go games now because of the cost let alone pay more. A hike on ticket prices, both on the day and ST, is all it would take.

Forget all this ‘let’s go up and cause chaos for a season’ nonsense too, it’s not the 80s anymore. Premier league grounds are mostly populated by the sort of middle aged well off families that used to go to the theatre but now see football as their part time hobby. There’s only a couple of games that would have a bit of potential and they would be policed to extinction anyway. If it happens it happens but I wouldn’t be looking forward to it too much.

None of us like it, but we only have two options - keep going or stay away!

If supporters stay away, then they’re playing into the hands of the PL/EFL who want rid of the ‘hooligan element’ of our club, and replace them with more of the very people we loathe and despise! How is that going to help the hard core element that are ‘clinging on’ as you say?

Actually, there is a third option - get relegated to league 1 and hope that keeps away the tourists and upper/middle class bods!

Would you take playing in league 1 to achieve that?

JB giving up and selling us to anyone who comes in with a reasonable offer? End up like the spotters? Have a bad season, and before you can say ‘relegation’ we’re in division 2 and pot less.

As I said up thread, look what’s happened to Bradford!

 

[kinelloz]

Why should a change in the club’s fortunes mean that supporters mindset has to change as well?

I think Wall supporters, regardless of their age, are a product of the community they come from: tough, hard as nails working class people who are all about family and the love of a football team that represents them!

We are not entitled supporters like those at Charlton, Cardiff, etc. thinking we’re better than everyone else, and that being in the Championship/league 1 is just a ‘blip’ and everything will be fine when we return to the Prem again! We’ve never had that mindset! We‘ve had so many promotions and relegations over the decades that nowadays consolidation in the Championship these past 6 years is deemed a success by us, because we’ve been where the spotters are now (league 1), and where a team like Bradford (who, over 20 years ago, were playing their football in the Premier League), are now - sitting just above mid table in league 2!

Our hard core support will never change! No matter what league our club is playing in, there will always be supporters following us through the good and the bad times, and I honestly believe that getting promotion to the Prem won’t change that hard core support! We would still enjoy sticking it to every other club we play against, still be singing ‘No One Likes Us’ at the top of our voices, precisely because we hate the Premier League and what it’s done to football, and even though we’d be playing there we would fight to retain our identity because we‘ve seen what’s happened to the likes of Chelsea and the Vermin, when they succumbed to it!

There’s a reason why Vermin and other clubs supporters admire us, because we haven’t changed who we are and we say it as we see it (refusing to take the knee being just one example), and if that pisses off the PL bosses, then we know we’re doing everything right!

The club would change mate. Taking the knee would be compulsory when told. You can't piss off the PL bosses as a club - biting the hand that feeds you over £300m over 3 years is business suicide - you have to comply. To do that you sell your soul. Can you point to one club that hasn't?

 

[Peckham Lion]

Why should a change in the club’s fortunes mean that supporters mindset has to change as well?

It changes from game to game on here A defeat and there are meltdowns galore, inquests, ridiculous assumptions and theories about our manager. I remember one former poster on here, an absolute loom that reckoned Harris was losing games on purpose cause he hated us. We got promoted the same season

Of course mindsets change, unless i've misunderstood your point. Supporting your team is an emotional roller coaster, at times. Love and hate all in 90 minutes. I take your point that we shouldn't be thinking we wouldn't hold our own but the reality is that it's more than likely that we wouldn't.

We're not Brentford or Fulham, so not worth comparing us with them just yet. Like many on here i've been going a long long time, this is my 45th season. Over that time, highs and lows, not a whole lot has changed with regard to our fortune. Call me a cynic but i believe football works in cycles, we're currently enjoying some success and that suits me fine.

I'm fully aware that in two/ three years we could be back to square one, then perhapsd not. I'm more than happy with our current fate, it's not the end of the world if we don't capitalise on that either.

You do bang on about being in the Premier quite a lot, why is it so important to you? I've given you umpteen reasons why i'm not fussed so i'd like to know your reasons for wanting to go up, i just don't get the appeal, the idea of not being able to compete on the pitch isn't a nice one for me. So would like to hear your opinion. What's the big attraction?

 

[Peckham Lion]

There’s a reason why Vermin and other clubs supporters admire us,

A small amount, don't be fooled by the odd anecdote. They've sold their souls, the old school that admire us don't go anymore, they can't for many reasons. The main one is being priced out, their non attendance is not all from choice.

 

[Peckham Lion]

Anyone who thinks that a couple of years in the premier league wouldn’t change our fanbase completely is living in a fantasy world. Go back a few years and tell the blokes standing in the chicken run, the clock end or the shed what their clubs would become and they would have laughed at you too.

We are already a bit of a magnet for tourists and upper/middle class bods who want to feel a bit dirty for the day. The only thing is at the moment there’s enough of us clinging on but that pool is getting smaller by the year. There are plenty of bods out there that won’t go games now because of the cost let alone pay more. A hike on ticket prices, both on the day and ST, is all it would take.

Forget all this ‘let’s go up and cause chaos for a season’ nonsense too, it’s not the 80s anymore. Premier league grounds are mostly populated by the sort of middle aged well off families that used to go to the theatre but now see football as their part time hobby. There’s only a couple of games that would have a bit of potential and they would be policed to extinction anyway. If it happens it happens but I wouldn’t be looking forward to it too much.

Great post and summary.

Go back a few years and tell the blokes standing in the chicken run, the clock end or the shed what their clubs would become and they would have laughed at you too.

Yep. Have a good mate, one of the original gooners, he don't can't go so him and his lot meet over Holloway for a home game and sit in the pub talking about the old days. He reckons there;s 50/60 of them each game, many more in other pubs. It's the same for Spurs, Chelsea and Vermin. They're not wanted anymore, their clubs priced them out.

There are plenty of bods out there that won’t go games now because of the cost let alone pay more. A hike on ticket prices, both on the day and ST, is all it would take.

Yep. It's as simple and as straight forward as that.

Forget all this ‘let’s go up and cause chaos for a season’ nonsense too, it’s not the 80s anymore. Premier league grounds are mostly populated by the sort of middle aged well off families that used to go to the theatre but now see football as their part time hobby.

It's part of a day out in London. Millwall or a premier game then off the the west end for theatre/ cinema etc.

 

[Peckham Lion]

If supporters stay away, then they’re playing into the hands of the PL/EFL who want rid of the ‘hooligan element’ of our club,

Ignorant and way off the mark. There's loads not going that were never involved in our mob. I mean, how big do you think it was? Spurs fans have been threatened with a ban for singing their song- yid army, Rugby has banned the singing of - Delilah. Complaints came for people that don't go to neither.

We have fans banned on a regular basis for next to fuck all. Many don't return and quite often neither does the group they went with. Those fans aren't replaced by Millwall people who'll buy a season ticket but once in a while day trippers. All well and good to might say, not when we were in league one it ain't.

Actually, there is a third option - get relegated to league 1 and hope that keeps away the tourists and upper/middle class bods!

No one is saying that, it's how you want to interpret it. We/ i'm saying that it's what will happen if we go up, the same as does at every other club.

JB giving up and selling us to anyone who comes in with a reasonable offer?

That isn't going to happen as well you know. He turns down an offer at least once a season. If you're going to have a reasonable debate then be honest and know the facts instead of clutching at straws.

 

[Peckham Lion]

look what’s happened to Bradford!

We go up and down more than a brasses knickers yet it hasn't happened to us. Look what happened to Wigan, Bolton, Pompey, Ipswich, Barnsley, Sheffoeld wednesday, the spotters and Derby.

All of them lived out your dream in the ' promised land' and look where that got them! If they hadn't gome up and got fleeced by players and agents they'd be fine now.

The premier leagur is cunt and for the elites, let it stay that way and we'll still be around in years to come. Fuck gambling everything just to satisfy the needs of a few bods like you.

When the fun stops- stop.

 

[Edward Alistair]

If we were to go up it would depend on the clubs attitude to fans on how the fanbase changes.
If they care about us at all then they will strictly use the existing database and not allow those to buy too many tickets for games, if they only care about selling out each game then touts and tourists will be a plenty whilst some true fans won't get in.
Imagine we are at home to Liverpool and you have 6 of their lot sitting in front of you and the rest around you don't care, too busy taking selfies, wrapped up in their half and half scarves.

When Norwich last went up they introduced a new 'away' fan membership just to take in more money, those that went away in the promotion season were cast aside if they didn't stump up the extra cash, if we take that attitude then we will lose fans in the following seasons.
If we go up we need to build on our regular support not diminish it for when we come back down.
Going up would be great and the players need to give it all they got to get there but I feel it's a shite prize once you are there, most of the money will go to players/agents and being amongst 19 clubs who have sold out to greed isn't a pleasant thought for me.

 

[Bermondseyinexile]

From the lack of news coming out about any of our squad being disruptive influences, my conclusion is that they are all good, honest pros who train and play to the best of their respective abilities. The problem is that that most of them do not possess the necessary ability to play in the PL.

With the best will in the world, replacing three players and spending £5m would not make much difference. Imo we have - at best and being very generous - 8 of our own players who could be, or have the potential to be, in a PL squad (Danny, Hutch, Cooper, Billy, Sav, Fleming, Burey and Esse). Imo the choice would be between the 'Forest model' and run with what we've got. The latter strategy would imo almost certainly result in relegation but should make us a profit and give us a significant cash windfall. The former would give us a better chance of survival - and further riches - but would be costly and risky.

Wrt my original point. If we were to go up, I don't think that it matters if it is this season or next, the choice will remain the same: Spend large or not, hence my view that we might as well have it this season if we can.

Hutch, Cooper too slow for prem, Sav similar and going backwards, Burey, doesn't have the footballing brain for the prem, more likely to go to div 1 then upwards..

 

[Kryan Bing]

It changes from game to game on here

Half to Half more like. Look back at the post last night that said we might as well turn it in because Burnley were passing the ball around. Then his World ended when they scored...Fair play to the fellow though, he held is hands up when we deservedly banged in our goal.

 

[Stowwall]

Hutch, Cooper too slow for prem, Sav similar and going backwards, Burey, doesn't have the footballing brain for the prem, more likely to go to div 1 then upwards..

That's it sorted then, we'll stay where we are.

 

[Life with the Lions]

You do bang on about being in the Premier quite a lot, why is it so important to you? I've given you umpteen reasons why i'm not fussed so i'd like to know your reasons for wanting to go up, i just don't get the appeal, the idea of not being able to compete on the pitch isn't a nice one for me. So would like to hear your opinion. What's the big attraction?

There’s no attraction, I can tell you that! I hate Sky and what they’ve done to football and supporters, but especially our supporters! We’re all well aware of what they (and others on Social Media), really think about us, even before, during and after ‘knee gate!’ That won’t change if we get to the PL. It seems there has to be a whipping boy, and unfortunately it’s us that have been singled out for this ‘honour!’

The reasons why I think it would be good for the club to get promoted are many. We’ve had six years (going into 7 years next season), of stability as a recognised Championship club. That has enabled us to get bigger and better sponsors, more TV money and better gates against top Championship teams and/or relegated PL teams (Sheffield United last Saturday is one example.) If we gained promotion, the club would get all this and more! For someone like JB, who has spent over a hundred million pounds to keep us going over the years, I’m sure none of us would begrudge him getting some financial rewards back for all the help and support he’s shown us during that time!

The biggest improvement though, has been attracting players like Flemming to the club! I think this has happened because for the past 3 seasons we’ve come close to getting into the play offs! That, and the fact we’re a London club with great potential, are all things Flemming was no doubt aware of when he signed for us! GR may also have assured him that there would be more investment and better players coming in, and from all of that, he’s thinking we can take the next step and go for promotion this season!

I guess the question we have to ask ourselves is, would Flemming have signed for a team like Stoke, who constantly finish mid table every season? What would the attraction be for him? Yes, Stoke might have paid him more money, but that isn’t everything for a player that also wants to progress and do better for himself (Jed Wallace take note.) The added bonus of promotion would benefit Flemming more financially, as it would the club and the rest of the squad! Promotion would also excite and terrify supporters in equal measure!

Supporters like yourself prefer the Championship over the PL, but in any sport, those taking part in it want to push themselves and achieve more! It’s human nature to want to better yourself, push yourself, and it’s no different with football players or football clubs! What is the point of a club like ours staying in the Championship indefinitely, of winning games if not to move up the table and challenge for promotion? Do we, as supporters want to settle for that, or do we want to see our club flourish and grow?

Personally, I think JB wants us to be successful (and not just for his own financial benefit), but he can only do so much! He’s already invested £120M+ over the years to keep up solvent, competitive and where we are now, but if the manager and players aren’t up for it, why should the Chairman be? Do we as supporters want to ‘play it safe’ every season, or do we want our club to strive for something more? Otherwise we could end up as we used to be: yo-yo’ing between the Championship and league 1, with dwindling attendances, no investment, and having to scrabble around league 2 and the Conference to buy players! Do you or anyone else on here want to go back to that? I know I don’t!

We have to challenge and improve! Otherwise, as I’ve already said, we’re potentially only a season away from relegation, and ending up in a similar situation to the spotters (minus the chairman shenanigans!)

Ignorant and way off the mark. There's loads not going that were never involved in our mob. I mean, how big do you think it was?

No, you’ve read that wrong! I’m not saying we have a ‘hooligan element,’ I’m saying that’s how Sky, TalkShite and others in Social Media see us, and of course it’s a small number, as it is/was with other clubs. The difference is, clubs like Leeds, Chelsea, Man U, the Vermin, etc. are forgiven their past discrepancies because they’re in the PL and “well, we don’t do those sort of things anymore,” (and no, I’m not advocating getting to the Prem to absolve all of our past misdemeanours, either!)

We have fans banned on a regular basis for next to fuck all. Many don't return and quite often neither does the group they went with. Those fans aren't replaced by Millwall people who'll buy a season ticket but once in a while day trippers. All well and good to might say, not when we were in league one it ain't.

I agree it’s shit what the club does to our loyal supporters, but I don’t agree supporters aren’t being replaced. Many on this forum are in the 40 - 70 range of years, and most will have children who follow us, and in turn their children, by and large, will continue that. I don’t think it’s all doom and gloom on that front!

No one is saying that, it's how you want to interpret it. We/ i'm saying that it's what will happen if we go up, the same as does at every other club.

If it does, so what? Those sort of people don’t define me or any other Wall supporter. Why should it? As supporters we didn’t kow tow in the old First Division, and we were probably hated more back then, then we are now! I will still sing, jeer and swear at the opposition, whether I’ve got a Wall supporter who doesn’t like that, sitting next to me, or a poncy day tripper sitting next to me, feeling the same way! It’s the club you support that defines you, not the PL and certainly not fucking Sky!

That isn't going to happen as well you know. He turns down an offer at least once a season. If you're going to have a reasonable debate then be honest and know the facts instead of clutching at straws.

JB could give the club up and have his son run it! If he’s not as invested in the club as much as his old man was, who’s to say that if we’re in league 1 or 2 by then, that he doesn’t just think, “Ah, fuck this! My old man wasted £120M+ of the family fortune on this club! They’ll never be able to get back up the leagues and go for PL promotion! The first decent offer that comes in, I’m gonna take it! I’ll never get that £120M+ back, but I’m damned sure I ain’t gonna waste any more money going forward!”

 

[Ulster Lion]

Careful what you wish for. As I said in an earlier thread, a day out at Wembley, and the chance of having our passports stamped for a little excursion somewhere in Europe, is all I'll wish for.
Too much cheating, skulduggery, and underhand financial dealing going on in the premiership for me, thank you.
I personally think that promotion would irreversibly harm our identity.

 

[Life with the Lions]

We go up and down more than a brasses knickers yet it hasn't happened to us. Look what happened to Wigan, Bolton, Pompey, Ipswich, Barnsley, Sheffoeld wednesday, the spotters and Derby.

That doesn’t mean it can’t happen to us in the future, though! A lot of the clubs you mention there were badly managed by crooks, thieves and swindlers! There’s no way you could put JB in any one of those brackets!

All of them lived out your dream in the ' promised land' and look where that got them! If they hadn't gome up and got fleeced by players and agents they'd be fine now.

See my comment above! Just because other clubs got fleeced by players and agents, doesn’t mean it has to happen to us! If we went up, I think JB would have a financial plan to steer the club in the right direction! Keep investing, of course, but where does it say we have to spend tens of millions of pounds on a single player who may or may not work out for us? You cut your cloth accordingly, and if you get relegated, then with the players you’ve had in the PL, hope you can get promoted again! Whatever happens, the club would be financially secure for many seasons to come, and that in itself has to be a good thing, right?

The premier leagur is cunt and for the elites, let it stay that way and we'll still be around in years to come. Fuck gambling everything just to satisfy the needs of a few bods like you.

Maybe. No one knows the future, not even you! “Fuck gambling everything just to satisfy the needs of a few bods like you.” Nice.

Yet you’ve said in a previous post that you’re not adverse at getting promotion, so which is it? Get promotion and endure all the shit you think we’ll get, or stay where we are (with relegation always a season away?)

 

[Stowwall]

Careful what you wish for. As I said in an earlier thread, a day out at Wembley, and the chance of having our passports stamped for a little excursion somewhere in Europe, is all I'll wish for.
Too much cheating, skulduggery, and underhand financial dealing going on in the premiership for me, thank you.
I personally think that promotion would irreversibly harm our identity.

It had better be this season then, cos the stamping of passport's will soon be a thing of the past because of ETIAS.

 

[Life with the Lions]

If we were to go up it would depend on the clubs attitude to fans on how the fanbase changes.

This. Not everything is cut and dried.

If they care about us at all then they will strictly use the existing database and not allow those to buy too many tickets for games, if they only care about selling out each game then touts and tourists will be a plenty whilst some true fans won't get in.

This.

Imagine we are at home to Liverpool and you have 6 of their lot sitting in front of you and the rest around you don't care, too busy taking selfies, wrapped up in their half and half scarves.

That could happen, but would it stop you from going to the next game? No one says you have to like it, but you shouldn’t stay away because some cunts next to you are taking selfies! Chances are, one of the Wall faithful would tell them to pack it in, sharpish!

Do you honestly think, though, with our reputation going before us, that the club would allow opposition supporters to sit with us? Day trippers who don’t want or give any aggro, maybe, but not staunch opposition supporters with form!

When Norwich last went up they introduced a new 'away' fan membership just to take in more money, those that went away in the promotion season were cast aside if they didn't stump up the extra cash, if we take that attitude then we will lose fans in the following seasons.

Agreed. Those sort of schemes are wrong, and our club would be wise to not implement them.

If we go up we need to build on our regular support not diminish it for when we come back down.

Agreed.

Going up would be great and the players need to give it all they got to get there but I feel it's a shite prize once you are there, most of the money will go to players/agents and being amongst 19 clubs who have sold out to greed isn't a pleasant thought for me.

Everything JB has done over recent years has got us to where we are now. Bigger and better sponsors, more TV money, better attendances and, looking to the future, a state of the art training facility that might be the envy of many established PL clubs!

Like I said in one of my replies to Peckham, I think JB has a plan, and I don’t think going up means we have to sell our soul to the devil. I’m sure JB believes there’s ways to avoid or diminish your fears. He’s not a crook, thief or swindler, looking to fleece the club. He cares and wants the best for our club, and I don’t think he would knowingly put the club in financial peril, as other chairmen of clubs like Derby did! Hurting the club also hurts his financial stake in it, and at £120M+ already committed, that‘s a considerable amount to spunk up the wall just to try and avoid FFP (or whatever it is he’s trying to avoid/get round!)