Atmosphere Saturday….

[Peckham Lion]

I’ve only wanted the PL for our club to make it financially better off, so we don’t go back to the dark old days of what is now leagues 1 and 2! That doesn’t mean that I support what Sky is and what it has become! To me, they would be just a means to an end to keep this club going for another 138 years!

I get that and fully understand the sentiment,but we've kept popping along for 138 years with only one visit to the top league back in 88/89. Yet we're still here and currently enjoying a long spell ina division almost alien to us if you take out history into account.

I think our current stay in this division is the second longest spell we;ve had for decades. We're doing okay considering what restraints we're up against. And of course, a spell in the premier could set us up for a long time, but perhaps not.

It's all ifs and buts and as much down to luck as anything else. There are plenty of clubs that have had their day in the sun but are still suffering and paying for that privilege to this day.It's not about the money you get it's how you spend and manage it.

Do that foolishly and you have another Sheffield Wednesday, Charlton and Pompey on your hands. Is it worth gambling all of the household silver on a dream that might may or may not come to fruition and serve us well? I'm split on that thought cause as i get older i tend not to be a huge risk taker anymore, but a realist instead.

Our manor is changing and fast, it ain't for working class or council tenants anymore. My son has his Wall connection from me and his grand father. He won't be living in London when he has kids, he can't afford to. So there;s a chance the Wall bug and tradition won;'t be handed down. My grandkids will have no local connection to the club. Everytime an estate gets flattened and rebuilt we lose more potrential traditional support.

Change is inevitable, it's happening to us and has been for years. What we become form that change is yet to be seen. I do very much doubt that it will be anything like we've known and what we can relate to. A stint in the premier will only accelerate that change and it's something that i selfishly dread.

 

[Life with the Lions]

I get that and fully understand the sentiment,but we've kept popping along for 138 years with only one visit to the top league back in 88/89. Yet we're still here and currently enjoying a long spell ina division almost alien to us if you take out history into account.

I think our current stay in this division is the second longest spell we;ve had for decades. We're doing okay considering what restraints we're up against. And of course, a spell in the premier could set us up for a long time, but perhaps not.

It's all ifs and buts and as much down to luck as anything else. There are plenty of clubs that have had their day in the sun but are still suffering and paying for that privilege to this day.It's not about the money you get it's how you spend and manage it.

Do that foolishly and you have another Sheffield Wednesday, Charlton and Pompey on your hands. Is it worth gambling all of the household silver on a dream that might may or may not come to fruition and serve us well? I'm split on that thought cause as i get older i tend not to be a huge risk taker anymore, but a realist instead.

Our manor is changing and fast, it ain't for working class or council tenants anymore. My son has his Wall connection from me and his grand father. He won't be living in London when he has kids, he can't afford to. So there;s a chance the Wall bug and tradition won;'t be handed down. My grandkids will have no local connection to the club. Everytime an estate gets flattened and rebuilt we lose more potrential traditional support.

Change is inevitable, it's happening to us and has been for years. What we become form that change is yet to be seen. I do very much doubt that it will be anything like we've known and what we can relate to. A stint in the premier will only accelerate that change and it's something that i selfishly dread.

I agree with everything you’ve said, and you can tell what you’ve written has come from your heart!

I guess the one thing I’m clinging onto (if we do at some point make it to the PL), is the fact that we have JB as our chairman! He’s a steady Eddie and not someone who blindly goes into something without first having covered all the bases! That, and being a shrewd businessman, has got him and his family where they are today. I don’t think he would put the club and its supporters in financial hock just to chase gold (the PL) at the end of the rainbow! He would make sure our cloth was cut accordingly, and that FFP would be achieved without putting the club and its future in jeopardy.

Likewise, should JB want to sell the club at some point in the future, we would all like to think that he wouldn’t leave us at the mercy of any crooks and swindlers who might want to flip the club for a quick profit (which happened to the spotters with Southall and ESI!) That’s not to say 100% JB wouldn’t do that to us, but I would say the chances of that happening would be very small.

Why do I think that? We all know that, as an ‘outsider’ JB ‘gets’ Millwall (us, the supporters), our working class roots, our family ties, pretty much everything that makes us who and what we are! You only have to read other Championship forums - supporters of clubs that have/are/were in financial trouble (including the spotters in league 1), to know how highly rated JB is thought of as a chairman and benefactor!

So, whether we survived just one season in the Prem, or stayed there for longer, I still don’t think JB would ‘sell out’ our supporters in favour of trying to attract more of the somewhat small in number, happy clappers who have already infiltrated our club and culture! A case in point is ST prices for next season! Bearing in mind the season hasn’t finished yet, and there’s still a chance we can make the play off finals and win them, the club have decided not to raise ST prices up to what London PL clubs are charging, so if we do get promotion, ST supporters are going to be quids in! Not the sort of thing you’d expect from a club who want to fleece supporters because they’re now part of the PL!

This is because JB is aware that times aren’t great at the moment for the working class people that make up 95% of our supporter catchment, so any financial assistance he can give is greatly appreciated by us, and only serves to show how much he thinks of our support for the club that he owns! I’d like to think that if we do get promotion, this season or next, that JB would try very hard not to ‘do over’ the support that has been the heart and soul of this club for 138 years, and what originally attracted him to us in the first place!

 

[ringo_the_lion]

I was very young at the time, but I think we stole the drum from a Swindon supporter when we visited during our promotion season in 1976.

What I remember about the drum was on the Good Friday we played Brighton which was a top of the table clash and the drum was banging away like a good 'un, as a kid(11) me and my younger brother loved it, my mum was there that day as well and she always asked after that was the drummer boy there when we went to games.
The next day we played Peterboro which was filmed for the big match on the Sunday and the drum was loud and proud.
I wasn't there for our last game away to Swindon but from what I was told the drum met its fate that night, not sure whether it got broke by banging over enthusiasticly, during a crush in the crowd or someone didn't like it but by the end of the night drummer boy only had his sticks to wave around.

 

[toplion]

Good tear up outside the ground with a game away mob is the spark we need. Get everyone on edge again and fired up.

Bit of luck some of the tourist get caught in the crossfire

 

[Secondwave]

Our manor is changing and fast, it ain't for working class or council tenants anymore. My son has his Wall connection from me and his grand father. He won't be living in London when he has kids, he can't afford to. So there;s a chance the Wall bug and tradition won;'t be handed down. My grandkids will have no local connection to the club. Everytime an estate gets flattened and rebuilt we lose more potrential traditional support.

Change is inevitable, it's happening to us and has been for years. What we become form that change is yet to be seen. I do very much doubt that it will be anything like we've known and what we can relate to. A stint in the premier will only accelerate that change and it's something that i selfishly dread.

None of my children or grand children live in London,but all are Millwall supporters with 3 grandkids season ticket holders, two more boys to be added.
It's up to us to insill the Millwall way in them.

 

[kinelloz]

You’ve hit the nail on the head there, Peckham, by outlining a major problem that a lot of Wall supporters face today: that of wanting to show support to the club, and not becoming part of the problem when bods stay away (for any number of reasons!)

The only way to keep Wall support as it has been for decades is to not let the bastards grind you (us) down! By bastards, I mean Sky, the EFL, TalkShite, the BLM, cunts like jug ears, etc., and everything they stand for: the total sanitisation of the beautiful game in this country! Like you said, many bods have left over the years so the hardcore support has lessened that bit more, but if you decide to jack it in (and others on here do the same), it’s just helping those above bastards who either want this club dead and buried, or make it tow the line with their rules, regulations and standards!

It’s been happening at and to the club for a long time now: CCTV, microphones, grass stewards (personified by Lurch and other cronies), all on the off chance that should we make the PL, we as a club will be oven ready for Sky to make us become another Chelsea or Vermin - a once notorious set of supporters happy to now take the thirty pieces of silver to ride the Sky gravy train!

I’ve only wanted the PL for our club to make it financially better off, so we don’t go back to the dark old days of what is now leagues 1 and 2! That doesn’t mean that I support what Sky is and what it has become! To me, they would be just a means to an end to keep this club going for another 138 years! Sure, let the club make a deal with the devil (Sky) if they have to, but that doesn’t mean that we, the supporters have to accept it! The only way we can show Sky and our club that we hate these changes is to not lose our long term identity!

Do that and we will become another Chelsea or Vermin - and none of us wants that!

To be brutally honest mate, I'd happily go back to L1 & 2 if it meant I could enjoy my Millwall again, catch up with my mates, have a laugh and a few beers and muller the officials and oppo players for 90 minutes without having to push through crowds of people singing along to Sweet Caroline and eating p&m out of plastic fucking trays.

I don't think I will renew and agree with you about the outside negativity, but for me the problem is closer to home, the plastic shit behind the CBL, the day trippers (yes I know they spend but they dilute the essence of the club), the microphones and grass messages. I honestly don't enjoy going anymore.

The only reason I do go is to catch up with old pals, the league we are playing in has no bearing on that. We talk about becoming plastic, we ARE plastic. The Den isn't hostile or intimidating anymore

 

[King of The Jungle]

It's a habit is going all the time, a life long habit for most, if not all of us. Then something happens in your life and it's all change, and without realising, that habit is broken/ gone.

It happens to lots of people, blinded and trapped by loyalty until one day when everything changes. The lockdown did it for many that i know who no longer make the pilgrimage every other weekend.

Have been debating and musing over whether to renew again for next season. Things are tight for us right now, work isn;t as regular or as fruitful as it was proir to covid. Would nver have been an issue or even up for debate in previous years/ seasons but with the way the club and fanbase is changing, and along with other factors it has made me think if it's all worth it anymore.

I will renew but that is after some serious thinking , many doubts and some nudging from long term Wall mates that i've known for three and four decades.

That's the main thing I miss when I don't go Peckham, my mates whom I only regularly see at football... But about half of them only go sporadically now too.

I was thinking about this thread yesterday evening, and I suppose it's inevitable that our fanbase will change, no matter how unique a club we are or no matter how much we resist it... Younger supporters in their late teens and early twenties will have grown up with a completely different set of values than those from before; not all of them but by and large they will have different attitudes to sport and the opposition than we might do.
I was brought up believing that anything that you can do to upset, intimidate or put off the opposition is perfectly acceptable, that you don't back down from anything and if someone says or does something out of order you front them up and point out the error of their ways, you don't grass. I also will forgive a lack of ability on the pitch provided it is made up for with effort, blood and sweat. But I would guess that many of these concepts are completely alien to many of todays youngsters who've gone through the school system post the Blair era, and it's inevitable that some of the old guard will be replaced by these people with different ideas, no matter how much we try to retain our roots.

The inevitable march of time I suppose.
But it still makes me cringe and shudder when I see a male Millwall supporter with a man bag.... A horrendous sight.

 

[kinelloz]

That's the main thing I miss when I don't go Peckham, my mates whom I only regularly see at football... But about half of them only go sporadically now too.

I was thinking about this thread yesterday evening, and I suppose it's inevitable that our fanbase will change, no matter how unique a club we are or no matter how much we resist it... Younger supporters in their late teens and early twenties will have grown up with a completely different set of values than those from before; not all of them but by and large they will have different attitudes to sport and the opposition than we might do.
I was brought up believing that anything that you can do to upset, intimidate or put off the opposition is perfectly acceptable, that you don't back down from anything and if someone says or does something out of order you front them up and point out the error of their ways, you don't grass. I also will forgive a lack of ability on the pitch provided it is made up for with effort, blood and sweat. But I would guess that many of these concepts are completely alien to many of todays youngsters who've gone through the school system post the Blair era, and it's inevitable that some of the old guard will be replaced by these people with different ideas, no matter how much we try to retain our roots.

The inevitable march of time I suppose.
But it still makes me cringe and shudder when I see a male Millwall supporter with a man bag.... A horrendous sight.

100% agree with that

 

[Peckham Lion]

But it still makes me cringe and shudder when I see a male Millwall supporter with a man bag.... A horrendous sight.

Fully agree. We're getting old mate!!

 

[partisan_lion]

The majority of my mates who I grew up with who love the football/club(s) have seamlessly transitioned into the 'modern' game (Sky/BSB) and jokingly call me a dinosaur supporter.
The whole atmosphere at our place has changed within a blink of an eye with overzealous stewarding, microphones, Stadium announcer (trying) to tell us what words and chants we can not use etc.Match day has become day trip experience minus cheerleaders and popcorn and that awful scouse shit 'Hey Jude' which is not only irrelevant, but is now played at other grounds.

I now live in rural Spain, do I miss match days?...Yes of course, but not as much as I first thought as I can watch games on the box and at the age of 54 I've become increasingly agitated around big crowds of people, I do at times feel like on match days, like being surrounded by energy vampires/wallys.
Miss going with mates who in fairness pick and choose their games or don't even bother going at all, so ended up just me and my son and on occasion my nephew.

I personally think there is a fag papers difference between Ambler and Kavanagh who have approached the changing of the type of supporters they want down there from different ends, but the effect is still the same.
Is resistance futile?.

What I have just written sounds like a load of old fanny, but I can't put it any other way...Just bring back terracing!.

 

[Peckham Lion]

So, whether we survived just one season in the Prem, or stayed there for longer, I still don’t think JB would ‘sell out’ our supporters in favour of trying to attract more of the somewhat small in number, happy clappers who have already infiltrated our club and culture! A case in point is ST prices for next season! Bearing in mind the season hasn’t finished yet, and there’s still a chance we can make the play off finals and win them, the club have decided not to raise ST prices up to what London PL clubs are charging, so if we do get promotion, ST supporters are going to be quids in! Not the sort of thing you’d expect from a club who want to fleece supporters because they’re now part of the PL!

This is because JB is aware that times aren’t great at the moment for the working class people that make up 95% of our supporter catchment, so any financial assistance he can give is greatly appreciated by us, and only serves to show how much he thinks of our support for the club that he owns! I’d like to think that if we do get promotion, this season or next, that JB would try very hard not to ‘do over’ the support that has been the heart and soul of this club for 138 years, and what originally attracted him to us in the first place!

You are correct to a degree but we have a CEO that would, in my opinion. The cut off for season tickets renewals at the early bird has been shortened and ends in the middle of the month which doesn't help a lot of ST holders. But that really is my only real gripe. Like i said, change is inevitable and whether we like it or not. We can't stand still, have to be PC and to be seen to be doing/ saying the ' right things ' because the game has been turned that way by marketing men from the city.

and you can tell what you’ve written has come from your heart!

Always mate. Thank you!

 

[Peckham Lion]

None of my children or grand children live in London,but all are Millwall supporters with 3 grandkids season ticket holders, two more boys to be added.

Superb mate.

It's up to us to insill the Millwall way in them.

We can but try!

 

[Peckham Lion]

personally think there is a fag papers difference between Ambler and Kavanagh who have approached the changing of the type of supporters they want down there from different ends, but the effect is still the same.

Fully agree.

What I have just written sounds like a load of old fanny,

Not at all mate, it's honest, true and i'm sure we can all resonate with that, you old dinosaur

 

[VassalsWall]

Not done as many home games this season as previous years for a variety of reasons so wouldn't like to comment on the atmosphere or the reasons why. However, have managed many more 'aways' and, as others have said, feel that the atmosphere at those has got better as the season has gone on. Obviously helped by better away form but it seems more than that. Maybe less dilution of people who see Millwall as a way of life.

 

[STWall]

I agree with everything you’ve said, and you can tell what you’ve written has come from your heart!

I guess the one thing I’m clinging onto (if we do at some point make it to the PL), is the fact that we have JB as our chairman! He’s a steady Eddie and not someone who blindly goes into something without first having covered all the bases! That, and being a shrewd businessman, has got him and his family where they are today. I don’t think he would put the club and its supporters in financial hock just to chase gold (the PL) at the end of the rainbow! He would make sure our cloth was cut accordingly, and that FFP would be achieved without putting the club and its future in jeopardy.

Likewise, should JB want to sell the club at some point in the future, we would all like to think that he wouldn’t leave us at the mercy of any crooks and swindlers who might want to flip the club for a quick profit (which happened to the spotters with Southall and ESI!) That’s not to say 100% JB wouldn’t do that to us, but I would say the chances of that happening would be very small.

Why do I think that? We all know that, as an ‘outsider’ JB ‘gets’ Millwall (us, the supporters), our working class roots, our family ties, pretty much everything that makes us who and what we are! You only have to read other Championship forums - supporters of clubs that have/are/were in financial trouble (including the spotters in league 1), to know how highly rated JB is thought of as a chairman and benefactor!

So, whether we survived just one season in the Prem, or stayed there for longer, I still don’t think JB would ‘sell out’ our supporters in favour of trying to attract more of the somewhat small in number, happy clappers who have already infiltrated our club and culture! A case in point is ST prices for next season! Bearing in mind the season hasn’t finished yet, and there’s still a chance we can make the play off finals and win them, the club have decided not to raise ST prices up to what London PL clubs are charging, so if we do get promotion, ST supporters are going to be quids in! Not the sort of thing you’d expect from a club who want to fleece supporters because they’re now part of the PL!

This is because JB is aware that times aren’t great at the moment for the working class people that make up 95% of our supporter catchment, so any financial assistance he can give is greatly appreciated by us, and only serves to show how much he thinks of our support for the club that he owns! I’d like to think that if we do get promotion, this season or next, that JB would try very hard not to ‘do over’ the support that has been the heart and soul of this club for 138 years, and what originally attracted him to us in the first place!

A case in point is ST prices for next season! Bearing in mind the season hasn’t finished yet, and there’s still a chance we can make the play off finals and win them, the club have decided not to raise ST prices up to what London PL clubs are charging, so if we do get promotion, ST supporters are going to be quids in! Not the sort of thing you’d expect from a club who want to fleece supporters because they’re now part of the PL!

This is because JB is aware that times aren’t great at the moment for the working class people that make up 95% of our supporter catchment, so any financial assistance he can give is greatly appreciated by us, and only serves to show how much he thinks of our support for the club that he owns!

 

[Peckham Lion]

Pretty sure that season ticket have gone up and for the first time in a couple of seasons. They're still good value when you break it down, roughly £17/£18 a match. To keep my price down for next season i'm going to get a ST for the lower tier which is a bullseye cheaper than west upper so it'll cost me the same as what i've been paying in previous seasons.

 

[Stowwall]

It just ain't the fucking same.
But the lot coming through now can't take away, and will never have the memories, old father time might but not this lot.
We are the biggest little small club in the world, that will never ever change, despite the man bag generation.
NOLUWDC

 

[JF_Lion]

I used to go home and away every week, but the club and the police killed that for us.
We’ve become more streamlined every season. It’s taken a lot longer than the other clubs because of the old heads but we are falling into it. Unfortunately the more successful we are, the faster this will happen.

 

[STWall]

From Robbo's Telegraph link
"The arrivals of Flemming and Voglsammer has resulted in an extra 650-1000 fans from the Netherlands and Germany attending home games."

 

[isle of dogs wall]

I used to go home and away every week, but the club and the police killed that for us.
We’ve become more streamlined every season. It’s taken a lot longer than the other clubs because of the old heads but we are falling into it. Unfortunately the more successful we are, the faster this will happen.

tbh as they say time waits for no man. Its a whole new era. i will still go to home games as long as my legs keep going. As you say regarding away games its been streamlined .Escots,chit chat with old bill,security,opposing fans. ffs

i went to sheffield weds away a couple of yeras ago and witnessed a large anount of wall being beckoned into a queue to board transport back to the stn, some Wall walked amongst the sheffield who were taking snide liberties. Overall as you say instead of we walk anywhere we were conditioned.