The reality of who we are

champs08

champs08

Well-known member
I look back at recent manager appointments and it tells a very accurate story of what we are and how we work closely within our budgets.

Rowett after Harris was a new style with championship experience. He was excellent for us in the main, and a top bloke, but he wasn’t able to take us on to the next level. In a many fans eyes, he became stale and lacked tactical nouse, limiting us to being just a mid table championship side with the odd run at the play offs. He left before it got messy, because the fans wanted free flowing attacking football, the type of approach that Newcastle or Spurs are used to. 100 mile an hour attack attack attack. If we lose 5-4 each week then so be it.

After serious consideration we go for a football purist that had no club management experience, but had great calibre, good connections and ideas to get the club playing in the new way, pass pass pass, move move move, triangles, hexagons, octagons and whatever “one” will get the fans on their feet.

That failed. Players couldn’t do it, manager couldn’t man manage as he wasn’t used to it and we hadn’t the funds to really make it happen, even if we had half a dozen transfer windows.

Welcome back Mr Harris. He gets us organised, giving 100% as a minimum every game, galvanising the team and crowd from the first minute of his second tenure to date.

We beat Southampton at their place, Leicester at home, get a point against West Brom that we should’ve won and even though we lost to Rotherham and Huddersfield, has actually taken this team to believe they can beat anyone again.

Then fast forward to the end of the season. Let’s say we are safe, we have championship football again next season and another mini clear out of player.

We get to the end May and we still have Neil as manager. We are linked with a few loan players, after some decent lower league players and manage to keep the core of the squad.

Do you want Neil Harris as manager, or do you want another potential Edwards, or Rowett clone or something else.

I reckon half will say Harris, half will say something else.

What does something else look like, because right now, I’m offering Harris another deal.

Thoughts would be good 👍
 
Give Harris until November if we’re in the championship, see how things are and make a change if it’s not working out, say thank you Harris you absolute legend your welcome back anytime to sit in the executive seats and look down on how successful you have been at Millwall.
 
Whether people like it or not, we are bottom six in terms of budget in this division, even allowing for us spending more money of late than many of us can remember. That is a fucking fact.

Rowett was majorly over-achieving. No wonder he got pissed off at the high expectations of some of our fans.
 
Championship wage bills for this season. The disparity between the top and bottom is obscene. We beat a team last night with six times our wage budget.

1. Leicester City – £60,190,000
2. Southampton – £40,014,000
3. Leeds United – £39,513,000
4. Norwich City – £24,196,000
5. West Bromwich Albion – £23,060,000
6. Cardiff City – £19,444,000
7. Stoke City – £18,340,000
8. Watford – £14,952,000
9. Sheffield Wednesday – £14,584,000
10. Middlesbrough – £13,582,000
11. Birmingham City – £13,228,000
12. Bristol City – £12,894,000
13. Hull City – £12,333,200
14. Swansea City – £12,276,000
15. Queens Park Rangers – £12,020,000
16. Ipswich Town – £11,378,000
17. Preston North End – £10,942,200
18. Coventry City – £10,008,000
19. Millwall – £9,856,000
20. Huddersfield Town – £9,258,000
21. Sunderland – £9,150,000
22. Blackburn Rovers – £7,678,000
23. Rotherham United – £6,674,000
24. Plymouth Argyle – £6,060,000
 
“But Luton & Brentford did it”

Clubs that bucked the trend over the course of what, 18-24 promoted 3 clubs over the past 6-8 years??

We are so far behind others with budget, we cannot expect anything other than fighting for championship status every season as the start, anything else is a bonus.

I think one or two may be converted to realism since this run in. Staying in this division is simply survival for us. Anything worse is disaster.
 
champs08 said:
Rowett left before it got messy, because the fans wanted free flowing attacking football, the type of approach that Newcastle or Spurs are used to. 100 mile an hour attack attack attack. If we lose 5-4 each week then so be it.
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I don't think the fans necessarily wanted that, just something more than going out every game trying not to lose and hoping to nick a goal from set piece. Something similar to how we played last night.
Yes, how we got those league finishes was probably punching above our weight, but you can still want it to be a bit more exciting without it all being absolutely win or bust!
 
Poplar Lion said:
I don't think the fans necessarily wanted that, just something more than going out every game trying not to lose and hoping to nick a goal from set piece. Something similar to how we played last night.
Yes, how we got those league finishes was probably punching above our weight, but you can still want it to be a bit more exciting without it all being absolutely win or bust!
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as you say similar to how we played last night, with the exception Harris motivates them , something I don’t think GR could do.
 
If we stay up this season we will have to spend more then we ever have done, quality of players and money in this league is really starting to show, not necessarily in one game like against Leicester but over a season. Some big teams will be in the Championship next season, even the likes of Pompy and Derby if they come up will spend at least as much as us, ex prem teams already in the league and those they will be relegated will make it even tougher than this season. Chairman is going to have to dig deep, clear out unwanted players and make tough decisions, if we don’t we will go down next season, as much as we battle and chase to get results over the last few games you cannot do that all season as it just won’t work over 40 games.

Going to be an interesting summer if we are in the Championship.
robbo555 said:
Championship wage bills for this season. The disparity between the top and bottom is obscene. We beat a team last night with six times our wage budget.

1. Leicester City – £60,190,000
2. Southampton – £40,014,000
3. Leeds United – £39,513,000
4. Norwich City – £24,196,000
5. West Bromwich Albion – £23,060,000
6. Cardiff City – £19,444,000
7. Stoke City – £18,340,000
8. Watford – £14,952,000
9. Sheffield Wednesday – £14,584,000
10. Middlesbrough – £13,582,000
11. Birmingham City – £13,228,000
12. Bristol City – £12,894,000
13. Hull City – £12,333,200
14. Swansea City – £12,276,000
15. Queens Park Rangers – £12,020,000
16. Ipswich Town – £11,378,000
17. Preston North End – £10,942,200
18. Coventry City – £10,008,000
19. Millwall – £9,856,000
20. Huddersfield Town – £9,258,000
21. Sunderland – £9,150,000
22. Blackburn Rovers – £7,678,000
23. Rotherham United – £6,674,000
24. Plymouth Argyle – £6,060,000
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look at Ipswich budget, not far of ours and look where they are. A good bit of scouting and they have shown it can be done if we can just up the budget and get some good prospects in.
 
Without a big budget we need a great scouting team and a good youth system ,we have a good youth setup but our scouting leaves a lot to be desired ,that's where clubs like Brentford have left us standing still ,let's hope we can unearth a couple of nugggets or a couple of the young one's come good
 
Unfortunately it's all about the cash. Got it, can buy better players. We are third from bottom of the average attendances. The 4 above us are nearly the same (in the 16,000s) QPR, Preston, Swansea and Plymouth. The current league table confirms this.
The thing we have against us getting new supporters is mainly our reputation, although many would say that that is who we are. How can we get attendances up and more money coming through? No Saudi billionaire will be pumping money into our club so where were are (a mid table Championship side at best) is where we will be for eternity unless that changes.
 
Shawmi said:
If we stay up this season we will have to spend more then we ever have done, quality of players and money in this league is really starting to show, not necessarily in one game like against Leicester but over a season. Some big teams will be in the Championship next season, even the likes of Pompy and Derby if they come up will spend at least as much as us, ex prem teams already in the league and those they will be relegated will make it even tougher than this season. Chairman is going to have to dig deep, clear out unwanted players and make tough decisions, if we don’t we will go down next season, as much as we battle and chase to get results over the last few games you cannot do that all season as it just won’t work over 40 games.

Going to be an interesting summer if we are in the Championship.

look at Ipswich budget, not far of ours and look where they are. A good bit of scouting and they have shown it can be done if we can just up the budget and get some good prospects in.
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You could also add Luton into that equation.
 
Unfortunately it’s not just a case of the board spending more cash. We’re limited by FFP and I’d guess are pretty much at that limit now. So it’s all really about more effective recruitment than usual, better coaching and motivation and bringing as many good youth through as we can. Sell two or three and spend that cash on better ready made players. That’s why the new training ground is so important. That spend is outside FFP constraints. Easy, ain’t it ?
 
Shawmi said:
If we stay up this season we will have to spend more then we ever have done, quality of players and money in this league is really starting to show, not necessarily in one game like against Leicester but over a season. Some big teams will be in the Championship next season, even the likes of Pompy and Derby if they come up will spend at least as much as us, ex prem teams already in the league and those they will be relegated will make it even tougher than this season. Chairman is going to have to dig deep, clear out unwanted players and make tough decisions, if we don’t we will go down next season, as much as we battle and chase to get results over the last few games you cannot do that all season as it just won’t work over 40 games.

Going to be an interesting summer if we are in the Championship.

look at Ipswich budget, not far of ours and look where they are. A good bit of scouting and they have shown it can be done if we can just up the budget and get some good prospects in.
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We have to try and avoid the sicknotes at all costs. That’s what’s cost us dearly for season’s now. Can’t all be bad luck.
 
MrRodcott said:
We have to try and avoid the sicknotes at all costs. That’s what’s cost us dearly for season’s now. Can’t all be bad luck.
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Unfortunately all our budget allows us is to take a punt on those types of players. If they weren't injury prone we probably couldn't afford them.
 
Sometimes I don't think our current squad of players get enough credit and are indeed, a decent bunch and maybe major surgery isn't needed (loans going back aside).

My point, I suppose is; at crucial times they have managed to pull results out of the bag when it wasn't expected. Under GR things were going flat with a couple of recent results not going well. We then went down to Plymouth who were on a great run and unstoppable at home, yet we dug out a 0-2 result. Then under Edwards, after the new manager bounce with 0-4 win we went quite a few games without a win and then strung three wins together including Norwich and away at Bristol City who were then on a roll. Then of course, under Harris a good start, followed by a couple of terrible results. Once again, on Tuesday they pulled it around again.

It's the inconsistency that has been a curse this season. Is that because of the terrible injury list cycle that has plagued us? Players not gelling because of the chopping and changing? Lack of a natural leader? We've had some good ones in the past.

To be honest, I'm finding it all a bit of an Enigma. At times we have looked like a bog standard, mid-table, average championship side. Other times, proper relegation fodder, and a few times including Tuesday night, a solid, hard working, decent team and certainly not worthy of joining those drips from SE7 in League One. As one famous, ex MO poster used to always say:
"Answers on a postcard please".

:grinning:
 
Phlion54 said:
Without a big budget we need a great scouting team and a good youth system ,we have a good youth setup but our scouting leaves a lot to be desired ,that's where clubs like Brentford have left us standing still ,let's hope we can unearth a couple of nugggets or a couple of the young one's come good
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Youth:
Harris, like Rowett rarely, if ever plays them - I understand in our predicament atm its hard to, however if we are mathematically safe with a couple of games to go, I doubt he would put them in.

Scouting:
Better than recent times, but still poor. Mayor seems the young, pacey prospect we wanted but game time will be minimum. Emakhu is in & out.
I understand it's hard to play kids, especially when in the shit but if they don't ever get played how will we know their potential & why would others come here?

Loans:
Few premiership teams will want their decent players to play the up & at em,
4 4 2 style Harris plays

Harris has been magnificent in the main since he returned, but for me is the past and not the future.
 
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