The contrast between our home and away results

Peckham Lion

Peckham Lion

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Last ten home games- Three wins in which we didn't concede- One draw again keeping a clean sheet- Six defeats in which we only scored in one of those six losses.

Last ten away games- Four wins in which we kept clean sheets in three of those.- Three draws keeping clean sheets in two of those games. Three defeats in which we scored in two of those games.

Unsurpisingly two of those defeats came against teams struggling down the bottom of the table and were subsequently relegated. The other loss was to Norwich and came as no shock to any of us.


So 15 points from a possible 30 on our travels and against some decent sides i must add. At the Den we've managed 10 points from a possible 30. It's quite a contrast if you compare recent results at home to those of last season where we had a spell of only 3 defeats in 20 games.

What's changed? Discuss.

Carry on.
 
Until the last 4 or 5 home games last season we had the.2nd or 3rd best home record in the division

In the season before we had thr 3rd best home record in the division.

It was our away form thats always let us down in the past
 
The speed of our build up. When teams come to the den they sit back a bit and we are so slow and laboured we cant break them down. Away from home they have to attack or their fans will give them abuse(sound familiar) which leaves more gaps. Although in both instances first goal scored really changes the game
 
Half a home ground of bods giving you grief cannot help the cause, perhaps playing away there's a little more freedom for mistakes as crowd won't get on your back, which maybe in turn helps us play better?
The frustration of keeping a home crowd quiet (as an away team) plays better into our hands than keeping the our support quiet when we're playing at home.

Obviously more to it..... or nothing in it at all, but well highlighted Peckham.
 
Luckymart said:
The speed of our build up. When teams come to the den they sit back a bit and we are so slow and laboured we cant break them down. Away from home they have to attack or their fans will give them abuse(sound familiar) which leaves more gaps. Although in both instances first goal scored really changes the game
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That's partly my take on it too. We absorb to much pressure at home and use the counter attack well away from home. If only we could sort out our home form we'd be play off places material.
 
The Den said:
Half a home ground of bods giving you grief cannot help the cause, perhaps playing away there's a little more freedom for mistakes as crowd won't get on your back,
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I also agree with this or have certainly considered it to be a factor. We can be a tough audience at times and quite unforgiving but i believe that only serves to go against you.
 
Peckham Lion said:
Last ten home games- Three wins in which we didn't concede- One draw again keeping a clean sheet- Six defeats in which we only scored in one of those six losses.

Last ten away games- Four wins in which we kept clean sheets in three of those.- Three draws keeping clean sheets in two of those games. Three defeats in which we scored in two of those games.

Unsurpisingly two of those defeats came against teams struggling down the bottom of the table and were subsequently relegated. The other loss was to Norwich and came as no shock to any of us.


So 15 points from a possible 30 on our travels and against some decent sides i must add. At the Den we've managed 10 points from a possible 30. It's quite a contrast if you compare recent results at home to those of last season where we had a spell of only 3 defeats in 20 games.

What's changed? Discuss.

Carry on.
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If you go into more detail mate, you’ll get the answers (I think!). Look at the starts at home.

Leeds - all over them in terms of tempo, winning tackles, playing the game in their final third.

Bristol - started well then became frustrated by a dogged team that had a plan to nullify us.

Swansea - started on the front foot then let them start to find their feet and ultimately had to chase a result with a very unhappy restless crowd.

All three games as examples (excluding Stoke) were games we had a decent hold on and then sat back and got turned over.

I think our players are going out to home games fired up by the pride of playing for the
Lions, then as soon as we are pressed, we descend to a default 5-3-2 and then lose all momentum, only to become a rudderless team for the remainder of the game, with little or no understanding of what Rowett is trying to do with the set up. It really is killing any enthusiasm our support has for our football.

Great result last night, and at West Brom and Boro which I loved, but he has to find a way to approach home games with strong formation and team that can find ways to score goals - whatever formation and tactics used.

I’m a qualified coach and agree with the motion that formations are actually not the important part. The important part when I train my U13’s is how we find space and create attacking transitions of play. It doesn’t matter if I play 4-4-2 or 3-5-2 or 4-3-3, if I don’t teach the players how to play around the opposition with creative transition, we won’t succeed.

I genuinely believe our problem sits firmly with our coaching team. Not Rowett, he should be the man picking and motivating the team. We need a coaching team that can gel this squad to be better and create more. Last night you saw Watmore take the ball under control, Dutch then anticipated the most def of passes and dinked it over the oncoming keeper. This is the complete other end of the spectrum of what we are criticising. More of this please Rowett and Co, this is how we need to get at teams - bravery and risk.
 
In my opinion everything comes down to the formation. It may work away when its back to the walls but it won’t work well at home. 5 at the back means we sit too deep ourselves and just bring the opposition on to us. As we don’t really have players who can unlock an organised defence we have to counter attack “quickly” as soon as the opportunity presents but we can’t do that easily without conventional wide midfielders (like we did under Rhino/McGhee with Reid and Ifill). Its too much to expect knackered wingbacks to get up the pitch like Reid and Ifill could. As the onus is on us to attack at home the 3 Centre Backs also get exposed badly when we lose possession (which we do a lot) and the gaps between the CB’s are huge especially when they get dragged out wide to cover wingbacks caught upfield. Sitting in the CBL upper its apparent every game.
Long story short just play 442 or 4411 at the Den.
 
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Lions21 said:
In my opinion everything comes down to the formation. It may work away when its back to the walls but it won’t work well at home. 5 at the back means we sit too deep ourselves and just bring the opposition on to us. As we don’t really have players who can unlock an organised defence we have to counter attack “quickly” as soon as the opportunity presents but we can’t do that easily without conventional wide midfielders (like we did under Rhino/McGhee with Reid and Ifill). Its too much to expect knackered wingbacks to get up the pitch like Reid and Ifill could. As the onus is on is to attack at home the 3 Centre Backs also get exposed badly when we lose possession (which we do a lot) and the gaps between the CB’s are huge especially when they get dragged out wide to cover wingbacks caught upfield. Sitting in the CBL upper its apparent every game.
Long story short just play 442 or 4411 at the Den.
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If I had to choose a home formation, it would be 4 3 3. We need a flat back four with a midfield that interchanges with our attack to keep pressure on teams. I hate 3-5-2 for us, but if we had the nouse and understanding to play it, it can be very entertaining. We don’t and won’t with this manager and squad so we please please please need to fkin drop it.
 
Why do we have to play a different formation and adopt a different strategy at home?

Imo we are most effective when we let teams come on to us and the results seem to support this. This strategy might not lead to the most entertaining of spectacles but that's another matter.
 
Pressure of playing at home, where we in history are expected to win at our supposed nasty place to play. If we don’t score early teams grow in confidence. Ok one thought on set up. Like to see a midfield general so to speak stamp his authority on the middle of the pitch. A Viera type player who just holds the middle , breaks up play and starts attacks. Someone with great tackling ability and can find a teammate 10 yards forward. For me leonard fits my bill. The times teams stroll through our middle is unacceptable to get hold of a game. Lenny is quick and strong, but would also need brains in front of him.
 
Brusselslion said:
Why do we have to play a different formation and adopt a different strategy at home?

Imo we are most effective when we let teams come on to us and the results seem to support this. This strategy might not lead to the most entertaining of spectacles but that's another matter.
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The trouble with that theory is that when we are at home, teams will not attack us as Plymouth did the other night. So we have nothing to sit back against.
We've seen it time and again where teams sit back at the Den, 10 men behind the ball and say "OK, if you want 3 points, it's up to you, but we're happy to get a point"
I'm thinking of Wigan and Huddersfield last season in particular and Bristol City this season. If we hadn't scored against Stoke when we did, I'm sure their game would have panned out like that too.
 
Brusselslion said:
Why do we have to play a different formation and adopt a different strategy at home?

Imo we are most effective when we let teams come on to us and the results seem to support this. This strategy might not lead to the most entertaining of spectacles but that's another matter.
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the problem is that the opposition adopt a different strategy, the clubs that are happy with a point set up to hit us on the break and we havn't answered that problem this year.
Then you have the likes of Leeds that just have too much attacking quality for this division who know they don't need too many chances to score the first goal, we were all over them until they had their first shot, then we were one down, chasing the game and it turned into a disaster.
Formations, to me, don't make a huge difference, 5-3-2 can easily be used as 3-5-2, it comes down to who is committed/allowed to getting in front of the ball and we no longer have the use of a target man to go more direct.
 
Think confidence plays a big part. Against Swansea, players weren’t looking for the ball, got rid of it as quick as possible – often to players already under pressure or to no one in particular, and didn’t want to try anything. On Tuesday, as the game wore on you could sense players grow in confidence, wanting the ball, moving into space, looking for the right pass, prepared to try things and if they didn’t work go after the ball again and not give up. I wonder if there’s too much pressure at home especially when there’s a big crowd with increased expectation. Even more so when everything gets analysed to the nth degree and when social media kicks in.
 
BigPaul said:
The trouble with that theory is that when we are at home, teams will not attack us as Plymouth did the other night. So we have nothing to sit back against.
We've seen it time and again where teams sit back at the Den, 10 men behind the ball and say "OK, if you want 3 points, it's up to you, but we're happy to get a point"
I'm thinking of Wigan and Huddersfield last season in particular and Bristol City this season. If we hadn't scored against Stoke when we did, I'm sure their game would have panned out like that too.
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I think that it's just convention that dictates you have to strive to win your home matches. After all, there is no difference in the number of points awarded for a home or away win.

Like others I'd prefer us to play a more free-flowing game but imo we don't have the players to do so.

Maybe I'm a lone voice but I'd be perfectly happy to see last Tuesday's performance replicated at home.

If teams do not attack us then so be it. A point each and a drab game. There have been an awful lot of drab home games this season even though we have tried to take the game to the opposition and, sadly, a lot of defeats.
 
Brusselslion said:
I think that it's just convention that dictates you have to strive to win your home matches. After all, there is no difference in the number of points awarded for a home or away win.

Like others I'd prefer us to play a more free-flowing game but imo we don't have the players to do so.

Maybe I'm a lone voice but I'd be perfectly happy to see last Tuesday's performance replicated at home.

If teams do not attack us then so be it. A point each and a drab game. There have been an awful lot of drab home games this season even though we have tried to take the game to the opposition and, sadly, a lot of defeats.
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I think it is convention, yes, but it is born out of wanting to put on a show for your home fans.
I’ve seen highlights of a number of Plymouth home games this year and I think they definitely want to put on a show at home.
I believe their manager said afterwards they had learned a lesson Tuesday night about real life in the Championship.
I’m at the Den on Saturday and I can assure you I want nothing more than to see us batter Hull and be 4-0 up at half time. Then I wake up and realize I should just be happy with a 1-0 win in the 95th minute, the ball going in off Cooper’s backside.
 
BigPaul said:
I think it is convention, yes, but it is born out of wanting to put on a show for your home fans.
I’ve seen highlights of a number of Plymouth home games this year and I think they definitely want to put on a show at home.
I believe their manager said afterwards they had learned a lesson Tuesday night about real life in the Championship.
I’m at the Den on Saturday and I can assure you I want nothing more than to see us batter Hull and be 4-0 up at half time. Then I wake up and realize I should just be happy with a 1-0 win in the 95th minute, the ball going in off Cooper’s backside.
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Hope you have an enjoyable time and see a home win BP. COYL!!!
 
With all of the comments on here being valid points, it really does come down to GR to make us better at home. If he can’t do that, he needs to go - sooner rather than later. This home form cannot continue or be accepted. If it does, we need to make some drastic changes. End of.
 
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