Formation advantages?

I wonder if in some games where it’s not going right, when the game isn’t flowing and chances aren’t being made or taken, that Rowett reverts to being like a rabbit in the headlights: paralysed and seemingly unable to decide what to do, and in which direction to go for the best!
I think it's just some managers are risk aversive and Rowett is on of them. He hinted in his post match interview yesterday that he thought the game was going to peter out at 0-0. His actual words were " I thought it was a nothing game. It was a game that looked destined to fizzle out." so he decided to take a point rather than try to put them under a bit more pressure.

I said to my during the game that it looks like we're not going to win so Rowett decided to set up so we wouldn't lose. I was quite confident that we wouldn't lose. I don't think either team really did enough to win and i don't think either team deserved to lose. A moment of chaos in the box from us and they nick all three points in the fourth minute of added time. It's always a risk that you'll get turned over like that when you haven't used the advantage of being at home. I think Rowett will continue to be cagey until he's got enough points on the board to keep us in the division. It seemed to look that way last season cause we played with a quite a bit more freedom once we hit the 50 points mark.

Sometimes, as Phlion said, as a manager you have to go with your gut feeling and make a decision dependent on the game and not the stats on an iPad!
Well his interview yesterday suggests his gut feeling was we weren;t going to win and our shape and 2nd half performance suggest that it was what he settled on. Although he did bring on the two young lads which perplexed me somewhat because of the timing. It was more a cheeky roll of the dice and see if we can nick one rather than go earlier with them and have a proper go. I hope he learns quickly after getting his fingers burnt like that through his own indecision and perhaps not having the courage to trust his players to go for the win. I hope he felt like a right tit after getting done by a complete sucker punch.

But we don’t know why and in what circumstances those subs were made! They could have been to shore up a defence when a team is under the cosh (or to keep hold of a slender 1 nil lead), or to change the game in that teams favour by bringing on more firepower up front with a different set of tactics and formation!
We don't but we do know that they can also be enforced on you because of the fitness level and game time expectations of each individual player. Watmore for instance wil be earmarked by the fitness team as to how many minutes you'll get out of before he tires or is at risk/ susceptible to another injury. We wouldn't have got a player of his quality if he was able to do 90 minutes every week.

I think yesterday (and certainly by the 60th minute), a lot of supporters could see we could have been playing to the end of the year and not scored! It was just one of those games when the opposition manager had done his homework on us, and was keeping us contained! It was then up to Rowett to change things in our favour and the obvious choice was to bring on Esse and Emakhu. Two players who have pace and trickery and might have taken the game to City! That didn’t happen! Instead he brought on Saville, a midfielder to come on into an already contained midfield which weren’t producing anything because City had us where they wanted us!
That makes sense when you read what Rowett said in his interview. The game would fizzle out at stalemate. He never thought about getting done by a late sucker punch so didn't try to win the game. It will be interesting to see how things pan out and will his tendency to be cautious stop. I say that because with the players he's brought into the squad ie Esse and Emanku are attackers and potential match winners. So what is going to be? cagey or using the attack minded players that he's acquired to do exactly that and from the start of games. If he's got them in as potentail get out jail cards only we won't improve on where we ended up last season.

Personally, I think there is too much of this statwankery on managers iPads these days, especially when it’s used during games! They spend more time glued to those screens than they do looking at the game itself! Use it in the gym for players fitness and to assess a players return from injury, but not during a football match! Back in the day, managers of the calibre of Clough, Shankly, Revie etc. only had the basic of stats when they were managing, and it didn’t seem to affect how they set up for a game or how they dealt with the opposition!
You could well be right but todays game is much more about fitness and is science driven diets. When players were smoking in the dressing just after they'd eaten a pre match meal of steak and chips the game was slightly different. Todays top players are finley tuned athletes and wouldn't last ten minutes up against an opponent if they'd had a few fags and a fry up before a game. Same for players that like a booze, it puts them at a disadvantage and affects recovery time and slows down the healing process of bone injuries. Mason Bennett being an example of that. He doesn't look after himself and is known for loving the booze. Look at his injury record, it reflects his lifestyle.

Think you’re being a bit disingenuous to a lot of supporters of every club who do know a thing or two about football tactics and formation!
I'm sure they do. I have mates that manage teams. But i will disagree when it comes to a supporter with the hump and a person that has played as a pro at a high level and has gone onto manage at a decent level. I'm sorry but i do not believe the two are comparable regardless of how much the supporter thinks he knows.

Surely experience and time served in that field trumps someone with no experience or history as a professional? Why don't we have Dave the butcher managing Liverpool. Why isn't Colin the carpenter manging Arsenal instead of working on a building site for 30k a week less than the pro? You could say the same for many professions, experience working in a chosen field will trump someone that hasn't done same pathway, level of training or practiced at a high level.

On top of that we as supporters and driven by emotions. Many of the rants on here that call for players to be fucked off, mangers to be sacked are done after we've just gone through a gamut of emotions, highs and lows, from hope to destitude, a roller coaster ride all in the space of ninety minutes. I think you're being a bit disingenuous with your reply because i've never said we're not allowed an opinion.

My point is there is a bigger picture, many facets and reasons why managers make the decision they do. Good and bad. They are human after all. It's not a simple as what some posts suggest that he should just pick him, drop him, do this, don't do that, and he's he's a cunt if he doesn't. That is just someones opinion, driven by emotion, mood when typing, like or dislike of the person in question.

You go to games, you've probably been to hundreds upon hundreds of them. You'd would have witnessed the bloke screaming and shouting his head off cause he's angry. He won't be making much sense or being measured and reasonable cause his beloved team is losing or has just lost.

Well that's what you get on forums too, posts are pinging up seconds after we've conceded or just lost, you hate the world, evreything is shit. At the same time someones fucking dictating what a geezer that's been in the game all his life should or shouldn't have done and when and with who. You want me to believe that person who's just his had his nerves torn to shreds and his heart broken is in any fit state or position to tell/ dictate to an experienced professional how to do there job.

No fucking chance mate.

For clarity again once more- i have never said someone is not titled to an opinion or there opinion isn't valid. If you post on a message board then expect to be taken to task if someone disagrees.
 
Although the 60th minute would have been better! If he’d done that and it hadn’t worked (for whatever reason), at least supporters could not have slated him for not being proactive!
Proactive? He brought on Bradshaw for a midfielder on 62 minutes.

See my points above. People are posting stuff and stating things as fact when in fact the exact opposite of what you've said has happened. You criticise him and you didn't even know he'd put a striker on and at the time you say is the prefered time. The geezer can't win can he!!
 
Peckham just seems to disagree because ‘the manager knows best’ sentiment is the right
I think you need to take your head for another shit becaue it seems to be making you type things that i've never said.


Go to the search function and use it. If you can find where i've said the words- the manager knows best- i will put a £100 in the help for heros war veterans charity. I think you like twisting peoples words.

good luck

Ready steady go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
Agreed mate,

You can see what have a good squad but can imagine a lot think it’s not utilized to max playing the way he currently wants to, becomes frustrating because it does indeed feel like we’re not giving it ago at home.
It's just his style of play, yes he goes out to win but playing with restrictions
 
Our central midfielders are not very forward thinking our new goalkeeper doesn't inspire any confidence atm and our star player has been kidnapped and replaced by his useless twin brother.
 
We just don’t score goals with his formation, quite simple really. Cost us last season at the end and we’ve started the same way this season. Always trying to snatch a 1-0, that’s the plan.
 
We have a better squad this season but have not improved at home in the slightest and dare say we are worse , we are carrying an un interested Flemming ,, our back 3 CB ,s are slow and were targeted yesterday , midfield Sat to deep and created nothing , if the majority can see this it seems why can,t our so called coaches see it , subs were correct but too late and have we paid 1.2 million for a duff keeper ?
 
I think it's just some managers are risk aversive and Rowett is on of them. He hinted in his post match interview yesterday that he thought the game was going to peter out at 0-0. His actual words were " I thought it was a nothing game. It was a game that looked destined to fizzle out." so he decided to take a point rather than try to put them under a bit more pressure.
You‘re right, he is risk aversive and I hope after the sucker punch of yesterday that he doesn’t see the last couple of minutes of any future injury time games as fizzling out, and that he instructs the players to keep pressing the opposition until the ref blows his whistle!
I said to my during the game that it looks like we're not going to win so Rowett decided to set up so we wouldn't lose. I was quite confident that we wouldn't lose. I don't think either team really did enough to win and i don't think either team deserved to lose.
Spot on!
A moment of chaos in the box from us and they nick all three points in the fourth minute of added time. It's always a risk that you'll get turned over like that when you haven't used the advantage of being at home. I think Rowett will continue to be cagey until he's got enough points on the board to keep us in the division. It seemed to look that way last season cause we played with a quite a bit more freedom once we hit the 50 points mark.
This is what I don’t get. Year on year that he’s been with us he has, slowly but surely, improved the squad, to the point now that he shouldn’t be cagey with his tactics and formations! He has to trust the players he’s asked the club to buy and let them play!

It’s a bit much to expect our first 11 to play every week like we did last season away to Blackpool (and last week against Boro), because other teams will be doing their best to win also, but if the players go out over that white line believing in themselves to do the job in their favoured position, I reckon we’ll win more games than draw or lose them! Then Rowett won’t have to worry about getting to 50 points before releasing the shackles, because we’ll probably get to that tally quicker than we did last season!
Well his interview yesterday suggests his gut feeling was we weren;t going to win and our shape and 2nd half performance suggest that it was what he settled on. Although he did bring on the two young lads which perplexed me somewhat because of the timing. It was more a cheeky roll of the dice and see if we can nick one rather than go earlier with them and have a proper go. I hope he learns quickly after getting his fingers burnt like that through his own indecision and perhaps not having the courage to trust his players to go for the win. I hope he felt like a right tit after getting done by a complete sucker punch.
Agreed. He has to trust his players on the pitch and trust his subs when he brings them on!
We don't but we do know that they can also be enforced on you because of the fitness level and game time expectations of each individual player. Watmore for instance wil be earmarked by the fitness team as to how many minutes you'll get out of before he tires or is at risk/ susceptible to another injury. We wouldn't have got a player of his quality if he was able to do 90 minutes every week.
The problem Watmore faces is that he goes looking for the ball and tries to make something happen with it because the midfield aren’t doing their job by linking up the play to the forwards! If that happened, I reckon Watmore would have more reserves in the tank to possibly last 90 minutes. Instead he uses up all his energy by the 70th minute and he’s spent and has to be subbed!
That makes sense when you read what Rowett said in his interview. The game would fizzle out at stalemate. He never thought about getting done by a late sucker punch so didn't try to win the game. It will be interesting to see how things pan out and will his tendency to be cautious stop.
You’d like to think so, but it’s probably so ingrained in him now to not throw caution to the wind, that it’s precisely why he won’t now take a risk to change it!
 
I say that because with the players he's brought into the squad ie Esse and Emanku are attackers and potential match winners. So what is going to be? cagey or using the attack minded players that he's acquired to do exactly that and from the start of games. If he's got them in as potentail get out jail cards only we won't improve on where we ended up last season.
Agreed. He has to be more attack minded, especially at home and particularly when he is using the likes of Esse and Emakhu who, as you say, can be match winners on their day! Why else do you have subs, if not to bring them on to change the game to your advantage?

If Rowett isn’t going to start one or both of them then at least give them the entire 2nd half if, as it was yesterday, the 1st half is going nowhere! Personally, I’d love Rowett to be bold against Norwich next week by dropping Flemming and putting Esse in the No. 10 role, and start Emakhu wide left! Show Norwich a statement of intent! It might also give Flemming the kick up the arse he so desperately needs if he’s to recreate the form he had for a lot of last season!
You could well be right but todays game is much more about fitness and is science driven diets. When players were smoking in the dressing just after they'd eaten a pre match meal of steak and chips the game was slightly different.
Is the game really that different though, compared to yesteryear? Hasn’t it always been a simple game of keepers stopping shots, defenders defending, midfielders driving the ball on, and the forwards trying to score goals? You could say it was actually an amazing feat of stamina and skill that 50, 60, 70 years ago, all these pie eating, fag smoking and booze drinking players could still perform on a football field, giving us the likes of Tom Finney, Duncan Edwards, George Best, etc. who are still idolised today by their respective club supporters?
Mason Bennett being an example of that. He doesn't look after himself and is known for loving the booze. Look at his injury record, it reflects his lifestyle.
Was aware of Bennett’s injury record before he signed for us, but didn’t know he loved the booze! Wonder if Rowett was aware of this when he signed him? Hope he wasn’t!
I'm sure they do. I have mates that manage teams. But i will disagree when it comes to a supporter with the hump and a person that has played as a pro at a high level and has gone onto manage at a decent level. I'm sorry but i do not believe the two are comparable regardless of how much the supporter thinks he knows.
Don’t supporters get the hump because they can see that something‘s wrong, and can’t understand why nothing is being done to change it? I think most of us on here believe that Rowett left it too late to bring on Esse and Emakhu yesterday, when the game was crying out for a tactical change much earlier! Were we wrong to collectively think that way? I don‘t think we were!
Surely experience and time served in that field trumps someone with no experience or history as a professional?
Usually, yes, but sometimes things stick out like a sore thumb so badly, that it’s almost impossible not to see the problem in front of you!
Why don't we have Dave the butcher managing Liverpool. Why isn't Colin the carpenter manging Arsenal instead of working on a building site for 30k a week less than the pro? You could say the same for many professions, experience working in a chosen field will trump someone that hasn't done same pathway, level of training or practiced at a high level.
I agree to an extent, but as I said before, an experienced (and sometimes great) successful player doesn’t always make the transition up to becoming a successful manager!
On top of that we as supporters and driven by emotions. Many of the rants on here that call for players to be fucked off, mangers to be sacked are done after we've just gone through a gamut of emotions, highs and lows, from hope to destitude, a roller coaster ride all in the space of ninety minutes.
This is true. However, even sometimes days after a game, a player can still be shit in a supporters mind, and no matter what they do, the supporter isn’t going to change his or her’s opinion of them!
I think you're being a bit disingenuous with your reply because i've never said we're not allowed an opinion.

My point is there is a bigger picture, many facets and reasons why managers make the decision they do. Good and bad. They are human after all. It's not a simple as what some posts suggest that he should just pick him, drop him, do this, don't do that, and he's he's a cunt if he doesn't. That is just someones opinion, driven by emotion, mood when typing, like or dislike of the person in question.
Of course managers are human and of course they are going to make mistakes, but when the same mistakes keep happening, supporters start to wonder if the manager is just being bloody minded, or he just isn’t aware that there’s a problem in the first place?
You go to games, you've probably been to hundreds upon hundreds of them. You'd would have witnessed the bloke screaming and shouting his head off cause he's angry. He won't be making much sense or being measured and reasonable cause his beloved team is losing or has just lost.

Well that's what you get on forums too, posts are pinging up seconds after we've conceded or just lost, you hate the world, evreything is shit. At the same time someones fucking dictating what a geezer that's been in the game all his life should or shouldn't have done and when and with who. You want me to believe that person who's just his had his nerves torn to shreds and his heart broken is in any fit state or position to tell/ dictate to an experienced professional how to do there job.
Equally you also get posters on here that are posting on match threads (and no doubt saying the same in the stands at the Den), who offer calm and measured responses when reacting to events on the pitch ‘as they happen,’ so its not all about shouting, swearing football blokes who think they’re better than the manager - just that they (and others) can sometimes see what the manager can’t!
No fucking chance mate.

For clarity again once more- i have never said someone is not titled to an opinion or there opinion isn't valid. If you post on a message board then expect to be taken to task if someone disagrees.
Of course!
 
Proactive? He brought on Bradshaw for a midfielder on 62 minutes.

See my points above. People are posting stuff and stating things as fact when in fact the exact opposite of what you've said has happened. You criticise him and you didn't even know he'd put a striker on and at the time you say is the prefered time. The geezer can't win can he!!
Sorry, should have been more clearer. I know he brought on Bradshaw, but I was talking about Esse and Emakhu.

My bad.

:sorry:
 
You could tell the system wasn't working yesterday after 5 minutes!!
Not making changes until the 79th minutes was rank poor management which ever way you cut it!!!
 
Is the game really that different though, compared to yesteryear?
I believe it is. Look at the pace it's played at now and how much more technical is has become. The emphasis on fitness, diet, body fat and the technology available to monitor players for whatever they need to monitor. Clubs have dieticians, personal chefs for players every dietary need. Each player can be on a seperate prescribed diet that the clubs nutritionalists devise. Players spend hours in oxygen tents. Forty years ago they spent hours in pubs
 
I think you need to take your head for another shit becaue it seems to be making you type things that i've never said.


Go to the search function and use it. If you can find where i've said the words- the manager knows best- i will put a £100 in the help for heros war veterans charity. I think you like twisting peoples words.

good luck

Ready steady go,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Haha you can’t read so I would expect you to know what sentiment means.

For someone that sits on here all day you’ve had a stinker. 🤣

Im done with the bickering anyway. Found it funny earlier but in the end, people are allowed their opinions.. the manager isn’t always correct, no matter what the stats tell you, clearly they are not the answer the last couple of games.
 
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Don’t supporters get the hump because they can see that something‘s wrong, and can’t understand why nothing is being done to change it?
He changes things and shape when he feels the need to. He's on the touchline giving out instructions. I forgot the amount of times down the years i've heard fans calling for someone to be hooked off only for the player to ;pop up and score. As i said we see the game with a different mindset going on than a manager does. We can be anxious, worried, over excited, pessimistic all manner of different moods that can change in second with the kick off a ball.

We certainly don't see it in the eyes that an experienced former pro does at times. I certainly don't at times. If we did we'd all be managers who would all be equal. I remember watching a Chelsea game when Mourinho was there. Within the space of five minutes he changed there shape, formation to combat his opponent. Minutes later he completely changed it again and made a sub ( 30 minutes into the game for tactical reasons) Five minutes later they were two nil up. He's an irratating fucker but a superb tactician.

Because we spot something that don't look right doesn't mean a manager has to immediately take drastic action or are not aware of that although our reaction is to act immediatley. That's natural when your'e emotionally invested but if we reacted to every sniff of danger that alarmed us we'd need 25 subs on the bench and a poking stick with a spike on it and some high quality valium :grinning:

It's high drama for us where as it's test of the mind and problem solving skills for the man in the tecnical area. I wouldn't be able to manage a Millwall game even if i was highly qualified. I'd be blinded by all sors of fears,, thoughts of losing, dislike or lack of faith/ belief in a certain player cause he missed a sitter at crewe 3 years ago,

I bet Rowett ain't on the touchline thinking oh no they're going to fucking score everytime a team attacks us, most of would and do :grinning:
 
I'm sure they do. I have mates that manage teams. But i will disagree when it comes to a supporter with the hump and a person that has played as a pro at a high level and has gone onto manage at a decent level. I'm sorry but i do not believe the two are comparable regardless of how much the supporter thinks he knows.

Surely experience and time served in that field trumps someone with no experience or history as a professional? Why don't we have Dave the butcher managing Liverpool. Why isn't Colin the carpenter manging Arsenal instead of working on a building site for 30k a week less than the pro? You could say the same for many professions, experience working in a chosen field will trump someone that hasn't done same pathway, level of training or practiced at a high level.

On top of that we as supporters and driven by emotions. Many of the rants on here that call for players to be fucked off, mangers to be sacked are done after we've just gone through a gamut of emotions, highs and lows, from hope to destitude, a roller coaster ride all in the space of ninety minutes. I think you're being a bit disingenuous with your reply because i've never said we're not allowed an opinion.

My point is there is a bigger picture, many facets and reasons why managers make the decision they do. Good and bad. They are human after all. It's not a simple as what some posts suggest that he should just pick him, drop him, do this, don't do that, and he's he's a cunt if he doesn't. That is just someones opinion, driven by emotion, mood when typing, like or dislike of the person in question.

You go to games, you've probably been to hundreds upon hundreds of them. You'd would have witnessed the bloke screaming and shouting his head off cause he's angry. He won't be making much sense or being measured and reasonable cause his beloved team is losing or has just lost.

Well that's what you get on forums too, posts are pinging up seconds after we've conceded or just lost, you hate the world, evreything is shit. At the same time someones fucking dictating what a geezer that's been in the game all his life should or shouldn't have done and when and with who. You want me to believe that person who's just his had his nerves torn to shreds and his heart broken is in any fit state or position to tell/ dictate to an experienced professional how to do there job.

No fucking chance mate.

For clarity again once more- i have never said someone is not titled to an opinion or there opinion isn't valid. If you post on a message board then expect to be taken to task if someone disagrees.
Read my original post & read your reply.

You replied with someone having clue about the reason why they’ve made the decision they did. And some other bollocks about failed footballers 🤣

Then referring to subs when I’m clearly talking about the past few seasons.

You have no idea who most people are on here & they might have fair bit more experience in football than you have.

Just because a manager has made a decision based on what ever stats or science he has been provided, does not mean it’s the correct one. Especially when we have just been outplayed to a relatively poor team at home & had the lowest XG of any team in the championship this weekend. As you say, they go by stats after all.
 
Haha you can’t read
That's news to me cause i've manged to respond to the cows cock that you're posting.

For someone that sits on here all day
See more bollox and incorrect assertions. I'm on here a lot today cause it's my day off. Still you've managed to respond all day so again and for about the18th time you've made a complete cunt of yourself and all in between you taking your head for it's umpteenth shit.
 
That's news to me cause i've manged to respond to the cows cock that you're posting.


See more bollox and incorrect assertions. I'm on here a lot today cause it's my day off. Still you've managed to respond all day so again and for about the18th time you've made a complete cunt of yourself and all in between you taking your head for itsumpteenth shit.
You seriously need to re-read the past posts 😂 I said I couldn’t be bothered to REPLY & you went off on a tangent.

Whether you’re replying or not, it’s not about what I said. You’ve got a bee in your bonnet.

All good mate, just read what people wrote & you won’t wind yourself up.
 
Just because a manager has made a decision based on what ever stats or science he has been provided, does not mean it’s the correct one.
Again more bollox, lies and shit. Second request for you to go and find these things that i haven't said. You really are a boring thick one trick 24 carat cunt.

That's your lot. It's to easy and boring. I'd get a better and honest argument out of a bag shit flavoured of crisps.
 
Again more bollox, lies and shit. Second request for you to go and find these things that i haven't said. You really are a boring thick one trick 24 carat cunt.

That's your lot. It's to easy and boring. I'd get a better and honest argument out of a bag shit flavoured of crisps.
Relax, you’ll break a nail.

Go to your original rant & why you decided to lose your head is beyond me.

Go for a walk, burn it off.

Enjoy your weekend & your data 😘
 

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