Where now

[Romney Lion]

Last night was a typical Gary Rowett fan dividing performance and once again we are all left scratching our heads and looking to apportion blame.

Burnley (The same Burnley who hadn't won at home this season) looked like world beaters as they tore through our midfield and defence but it wasn't difficult. Shackleton has been the victim of lots of criticism (Lions TV dismissed him as not good enough) but everyone except for Rowett could see that Shackleton and Saville were being overrun in midfield. The defence simply drop off leaving the midfield isolated and leaving acres of space in front of the defence. The second goal was a classic example of how poor our defending is when two defenders allowed a Burnley player to sneak between them to score. Straight away Bart was blamed but where were the defenders to pick up the second ball.

I have a UEFA B licence and I would love to play against us from the start. Press the back five, play three in the middle and wait for the inevitable long ball. Burnley's 4-3-3 formation was perfect against the 5-2-3 and stifled any attacking threat.

Before we start attacking players (Malone, Shackleton and Afobe are the current targets) the focus needs to be on the attacking passages of play. Haaland wouldn't score in our team. Unfortunately only Rowett can effect this and he does seem stuck in his ways with his 5-2-1-2 or 5-2-3 which I would add is too rigid.

I'll give it 5 more games and he will either turn it around or the fans will turn.

Personally and for what it's worth I would play a 4-2-3-1

Bart

McNamara Hutch Coops Wallace

Shackleton Mitchell

Honeyman/Bradshaw Flemming Burey/Voglsammer

Voglsammer/Afobe

Attacking and defensive in equal measures

 

[kinelloz]

Don't disagree with the formation, but Coops has been fucking awful for best part of 18 months, gives away goals, loses his man and terrible distribution. He is in the team purely as a threat at corners which we don't get anymore and where he invariably gives away a free kick when we do.

 

[Gaeilge Millwall]

Circle the wagons people ...........

Onwards and upwards
It’s a tough start, it’s a tough finish we should be worried about

 

[Life with the Lions]

Last night was a typical Gary Rowett fan dividing performance and once again we are all left scratching our heads and looking to apportion blame.

Burnley (The same Burnley who hadn't won at home this season) looked like world beaters as they tore through our midfield and defence but it wasn't difficult. Shackleton has been the victim of lots of criticism (Lions TV dismissed him as not good enough) but everyone except for Rowett could see that Shackleton and Saville were being overrun in midfield. The defence simply drop off leaving the midfield isolated and leaving acres of space in front of the defence. The second goal was a classic example of how poor our defending is when two defenders allowed a Burnley player to sneak between them to score. Straight away Bart was blamed but where were the defenders to pick up the second ball.

I have a UEFA B licence and I would love to play against us from the start. Press the back five, play three in the middle and wait for the inevitable long ball. Burnley's 4-3-3 formation was perfect against the 5-2-3 and stifled any attacking threat.

Before we start attacking players (Malone, Shackleton and Afobe are the current targets) the focus needs to be on the attacking passages of play. Haaland wouldn't score in our team. Unfortunately only Rowett can effect this and he does seem stuck in his ways with his 5-2-1-2 or 5-2-3 which I would add is too rigid.

I'll give it 5 more games and he will either turn it around or the fans will turn.

Personally and for what it's worth I would play a 4-2-3-1

Bart

McNamara Hutch Coops Wallace

Shackleton Mitchell

Honeyman/Bradshaw Flemming Burey/Voglsammer

Voglsammer/Afobe

Attacking and defensive in equal measures

An excellent summation of the situation, Romney!

I said this on another thread, but I can’t see Rowett changing his formation that much, because of his defence minded attitude! The irony there is that he sets us up not to concede, but we inevitably do because of the points you raised, re leaving acres of space in front of our defenders, allowing the opposition to exploit that space and come at us!

You are right of course, if results don’t pick up, the supporters will turn on both the players and the manager. I would wager at the moment that if you could do a poll of every Wall supporter at home games, it would be 60/40 against Rowett’s style of play! That percentage will only widen if results, especially at home, don’t improve!

Of course some of the blame has to be attributed to the players. It’s a sorry state of affairs that seasoned pros, many of whom have been playing Championship football for six seasons now, cannot properly make two yard passes to each other, without the ball either going into touch, or being intercepted by the opposition!

I‘ve always been an advocate of a manager sitting in the stands, at least for the 1st half, as it’s a good way to assess how the players from both sides are performing, as well as noting where on the pitch areas are being exploited by the opposition. It’s strange that our supporters, sitting home and away in the stands, can see where mistakes are being made, but for some reason, our manager cannot at pitch level!

 

[Lions21]

Don't disagree with the formation, but Coops has been fucking awful for best part of 18 months, gives away goals, loses his man and terrible distribution. He is in the team purely as a threat at corners which we don't get anymore and where he invariably gives away a free kick when we do.

Coops seems nervous to me when in a 3. Under Harris he was in a back 4 with Hutch to his right and a left back to his side and formed a solid partnership with Hutch. Its the formation thats the problem and also that we have no target men up front anymore so by default he becomes it.

 

[Lion-in-exile]

Conversation in the dugout must go something like:
GR "We are struggling to create anything in the final third, what should we do?"
AB "No idea boss I was a full back in my playing days, just like you Gov, ask Robbo"
PR (Shrugs shoulders) " I never went passed the half way line when I played! What about the bloke with the beard who prats about with the tablet?
Bearded bloke " Sorry, nothing from me,
I've never kicked a ball in my life, shall we just lump it and hope to get a corner?"
GR " Yeah, let's do that, fuck it!"

 

[Lionwolf]

Got to ask what is the advantage of x3, Cresswell, Cooper, Hutch? Merson said the other day, you only play x3 when your centre halves aren’t good enough. Cooper and Hutch have proved they are, as Lions21 just said. They are lost in this x3. Malone and Danny sadly aren’t good enough as wing backs. If they can’t do it the whole system is kaput, especially away from home. The result only two men in midfield which is being constantly overrun. The centre halves are under pressure all the time, because we sit back and all the opponents have to do is add an extra midfielder. One more gives us so much more flexibility. Fleming looks good, but out wide!! Well we only have Burey now. We’ve got away with this system because Jed was the outlet with pace, all over the place up top. He keeps talking about changing tactics, but the 5 at the back remains. Drop it and get at Cardiff from the start, don’t sit back and let them attack, build confidence and score the inevitable first goal.

 

[Wippa]

Last night was a typical Gary Rowett fan dividing performance and once again we are all left scratching our heads and looking to apportion blame.

Burnley (The same Burnley who hadn't won at home this season) looked like world beaters as they tore through our midfield and defence but it wasn't difficult. Shackleton has been the victim of lots of criticism (Lions TV dismissed him as not good enough) but everyone except for Rowett could see that Shackleton and Saville were being overrun in midfield. The defence simply drop off leaving the midfield isolated and leaving acres of space in front of the defence. The second goal was a classic example of how poor our defending is when two defenders allowed a Burnley player to sneak between them to score. Straight away Bart was blamed but where were the defenders to pick up the second ball.

I have a UEFA B licence and I would love to play against us from the start. Press the back five, play three in the middle and wait for the inevitable long ball. Burnley's 4-3-3 formation was perfect against the 5-2-3 and stifled any attacking threat.

Before we start attacking players (Malone, Shackleton and Afobe are the current targets) the focus needs to be on the attacking passages of play. Haaland wouldn't score in our team. Unfortunately only Rowett can effect this and he does seem stuck in his ways with his 5-2-1-2 or 5-2-3 which I would add is too rigid.

I'll give it 5 more games and he will either turn it around or the fans will turn.

Personally and for what it's worth I would play a 4-2-3-1

Bart

McNamara Hutch Coops Wallace

Shackleton Mitchell

Honeyman/Bradshaw Flemming Burey/Voglsammer

Voglsammer/Afobe

Attacking and defensive in equal measures

Great post

 

[Overseaswall]

Last night was a typical Gary Rowett fan dividing performance and once again we are all left scratching our heads and looking to apportion blame.

Burnley (The same Burnley who hadn't won at home this season) looked like world beaters as they tore through our midfield and defence but it wasn't difficult. Shackleton has been the victim of lots of criticism (Lions TV dismissed him as not good enough) but everyone except for Rowett could see that Shackleton and Saville were being overrun in midfield. The defence simply drop off leaving the midfield isolated and leaving acres of space in front of the defence. The second goal was a classic example of how poor our defending is when two defenders allowed a Burnley player to sneak between them to score. Straight away Bart was blamed but where were the defenders to pick up the second ball.

I have a UEFA B licence and I would love to play against us from the start. Press the back five, play three in the middle and wait for the inevitable long ball. Burnley's 4-3-3 formation was perfect against the 5-2-3 and stifled any attacking threat.

Before we start attacking players (Malone, Shackleton and Afobe are the current targets) the focus needs to be on the attacking passages of play. Haaland wouldn't score in our team. Unfortunately only Rowett can effect this and he does seem stuck in his ways with his 5-2-1-2 or 5-2-3 which I would add is too rigid.

I'll give it 5 more games and he will either turn it around or the fans will turn.

Personally and for what it's worth I would play a 4-2-3-1

Bart

McNamara Hutch Coops Wallace

Shackleton Mitchell

Honeyman/Bradshaw Flemming Burey/Voglsammer

Voglsammer/Afobe

Attacking and defensive in equal measures

Definitely win with that selection we have 13 players

 

[ParisWall]

Now where?

 

[norwichmark]

Last night was a typical Gary Rowett fan dividing performance and once again we are all left scratching our heads and looking to apportion blame.

Burnley (The same Burnley who hadn't won at home this season) looked like world beaters as they tore through our midfield and defence but it wasn't difficult. Shackleton has been the victim of lots of criticism (Lions TV dismissed him as not good enough) but everyone except for Rowett could see that Shackleton and Saville were being overrun in midfield. The defence simply drop off leaving the midfield isolated and leaving acres of space in front of the defence. The second goal was a classic example of how poor our defending is when two defenders allowed a Burnley player to sneak between them to score. Straight away Bart was blamed but where were the defenders to pick up the second ball.

I have a UEFA B licence and I would love to play against us from the start. Press the back five, play three in the middle and wait for the inevitable long ball. Burnley's 4-3-3 formation was perfect against the 5-2-3 and stifled any attacking threat.

Before we start attacking players (Malone, Shackleton and Afobe are the current targets) the focus needs to be on the attacking passages of play. Haaland wouldn't score in our team. Unfortunately only Rowett can effect this and he does seem stuck in his ways with his 5-2-1-2 or 5-2-3 which I would add is too rigid.

I'll give it 5 more games and he will either turn it around or the fans will turn.

Personally and for what it's worth I would play a 4-2-3-1

Bart

McNamara Hutch Coops Wallace

Shackleton Mitchell

Honeyman/Bradshaw Flemming Burey/Voglsammer

Voglsammer/Afobe

Attacking and defensive in equal measures

Yes, we need a back 4 with 5 in the middle, Shackleton in my eyes is class but needs class around him. We need to be able to create triangles with players 10 yards or so apart not next to each other that’s easy to defend. And move to find space, like rodriguez did last night he was class.or dribble through our statues like benson did, another class act.we have the players for midfield just not the right application.

 

[Romney Lion]

Circle the wagons people ...........

Onwards and upwards
It’s a tough start, it’s a tough finish we should be worried about

I've supported the club since 1972 and seen some genuinely shit sides but I seriously believe this squad has a lot of potential but I think Rowett is holding us back. Did you see the players arguing amongst themselves against Reading. Somethings not right

 

[Romney Lion]

Got to ask what is the advantage of x3, Cresswell, Cooper, Hutch? Merson said the other day, you only play x3 when your centre halves aren’t good enough. Cooper and Hutch have proved they are, as Lions21 just said. They are lost in this x3. Malone and Danny sadly aren’t good enough as wing backs. If they can’t do it the whole system is kaput, especially away from home. The result only two men in midfield which is being constantly overrun. The centre halves are under pressure all the time, because we sit back and all the opponents have to do is add an extra midfielder. One more gives us so much more flexibility. Fleming looks good, but out wide!! Well we only have Burey now. We’ve got away with this system because Jed was the outlet with pace, all over the place up top. He keeps talking about changing tactics, but the 5 at the back remains. Drop it and get at Cardiff from the start, don’t sit back and let them attack, build confidence and score the inevitable first goal.

Maybe the managers tactics aren't good enough hence 3 Centre backs

 

[Romney Lion]

Yes, we need a back 4 with 5 in the middle, Shackleton in my eyes is class but needs class around him. We need to be able to create triangles with players 10 yards or so apart not next to each other that’s easy to defend. And move to find space, like rodriguez did last night he was class.or dribble through our statues like benson did, another class act.we have the players for midfield just not the right application.

Shackleton is class

 

[Stowwall]

Shackleton is class

In the right position.

 

[STWall]

An excellent summation of the situation, Romney!

I said this on another thread, but I can’t see Rowett changing his formation that much, because of his defence minded attitude! The irony there is that he sets us up not to concede, but we inevitably do because of the points you raised, re leaving acres of space in front of our defenders, allowing the opposition to exploit that space and come at us!

You are right of course, if results don’t pick up, the supporters will turn on both the players and the manager. I would wager at the moment that if you could do a poll of every Wall supporter at home games, it would be 60/40 against Rowett’s style of play! That percentage will only widen if results, especially at home, don’t improve!

Of course some of the blame has to be attributed to the players. It’s a sorry state of affairs that seasoned pros, many of whom have been playing Championship football for six seasons now, cannot properly make two yard passes to each other, without the ball either going into touch, or being intercepted by the opposition!

I‘ve always been an advocate of a manager sitting in the stands, at least for the 1st half, as it’s a good way to assess how the players from both sides are performing, as well as noting where on the pitch areas are being exploited by the opposition. It’s strange that our supporters, sitting home and away in the stands, can see where mistakes are being made, but for some reason, our manager cannot at pitch level!

GR relies on his dog for the blind too much!

 

[robbo555]

I honestly don't have a problem with a defensive manager and a defensive set-up. The problem I have is our attacking play. What is our pattern of play? Do we even have one? To me, it looks like Rowett likes to set us up to keep it tight, avoid mistakes and then almost let the attacking players be free do their thing or try to nick a goal at a set-piece, which I suspect is our main idea. There seems to be no cohesive attacking direction.

For example, Tottenham either play on the counter-attack with two wide players and Kane, win the ball and move it quickly to catch out the opposition or try to dominate the ball and move their wing-backs really high up and outnumber the opposition. Man City have scored a load of goals by keeping possession, moving the ball quickly and then wide and cutting it back to players. The number of goals they score at the back post from low crosses is incredibly high. Liverpool have three forwards who play within the width of the 18 yard box, the full-backs act as wingers so they attack with five and then try to exploit the spaces with quick passing. I know these are three elite teams, but they have a definitive way of playing.

If we cross the ball into the box then we need at least three players inside the box with a couple on the edge of the area. One near post, one far post, one on the penalty spot and two outside the area basically on the D. One of these players can attack the area from deep which is very useful as it's harder to mark. Tim Cahill scored many goals this way. If you put in ten crosses in a game of whatever quality, at some point the ball will fall to one of those players for an attempt at goal. An example of this is the third goal v Coventry. The ball was played in, we had four or five players in the box, Afobe took a touch and Saville shot and scored. That isn't actual rocket science.

We are never going to be a team that passes the other to death, we don't have the players or the manager inclined to do it. What I would like to see is more intent when we do attack. Not banzai, stupid, reckless attacking. Just a plan or idea or philosophy to score goals. Whatever we are doing right now is not working.

 

[robbo555]

(Sorry for the long post yet again, I can't sleep)

 

[robbo555]

Great post

I second this. Fantastic post @Romney Lion.

 

[robbo555]

In the right position.

In a midfield three he would be better IMO. Our spare man with the back five is always a defender when the majority of games are won in midfield. If you can outnumber or match the midfielders you are halfway to winning a game. Our back five almost always stays as a back five. It only works if your wing-backs almost play as wingers and stretch the pitch by staying wide. But doing that takes bravery and Rowett doesn't like to take chances. I can why he does that but right now we are conceding stupid goals and scoring fuck all. And that is a recipe for disaster.